If you got your head stuck into a dark hole and dont want to even consider opposing facts, or even the possibility that you may be wrong, then you wont.
Im not going to try and show you things if you just dont care.
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You say the T-72B3A should be 11.7, I say it should be 12.0, this is porbably as we likely have very different play styles. However, atleast in the way that I have played the T72 series, I have found that I can commonly do very well in them, and get the feeling that it shouldn’t be as low as it is.
I agree, the M1A2 is underteired, should be about 12.3 maybe 12.7 imo.
You say the T-72B3A shouldnt be able to face things like the strv122, honestly, I agree. I just think ground RB/SB as a whole needs a decent amount of decompression, as imo things like the T64B shouldn’t be able to face things like the challenger mk3, but here we are.
On your point that the black night can interecpt APFSDS-T, sure, it can, but only slow moving ones (below 1600m/s iirc) and you also only get 4 shots, rendering it virtually useless at its BR, when a lot of things have 1750m/s+. The T72 APS is not as strong sure, but thats why its not at 12.7 no? I dont think it deserves to be as high as it its at 12.3, but I dont think ti should be 11.7 or below.
Kontact 5 ERA is a buggy mess, in such a way that there is no designated system for how light vs heavy ERA works, meaning that it often stacks efficiency, and doesnt interact with shells the way it should. This means that it nullifies a lot of the quality aspect shells like that on the abrams and leopard, designed to deafeat ERA.
And here, I was mistaken. I thought the t72b3a got Kontact 5, it doesnt. I was wrong here. I still believe it is justifyable to have it at 12.0 however, as the way its turret is designed makes it volumetric hell to get through.
In the screenshot you linked, you show that it could penetrate the tank, but however, in my experience, the russian T series is often a volumetric nightmare. I have had many occasions where I will shoot the breech, only for my round to not spall at all and kinda just… disappear and turn the breech yellow. Same deal with the drivers port, sometimes it works, most of the time it does not. The only spots that I find it can consistently go through frontally, is the LFP and the Turret ring. The turret ring is tiny, so, what do I do in a brawl or sniping match where the opposing tank is hull down or pushing round a corner? This is where russian tank strengths lie my friend, brawling and flat map sniping.
Like I say before, the T90 is one of the best, only second to the leopard. You seem to have agreed with me here.
Mobility? Not great, but not far behind either. And its better than some others that it can face. Challenger 2, notably.
Gun handling? The T90 has a 40/s turret traverse, which is better than some of its peers, for example it has a 9/s better horizontal than the challenger and a 16/s better vertical than the M1A2T.
Firepower? Not the worst at 12.7, where is that number coming from. The BN’s best round is about 20mm less penetration than the T90M, better than the VT4A1, and not lagging that far behind the Merkava and the TKX.
Armour? Still not better than the best tank at top teir, not surprising. But it is significantly better than a lot of other tanks, no? Think, the ariette, the leclerc, the challenger, the VT4A1.
The russian tanks actually have less weakspots than nato MBTs for the reasons I mentioned above, and if your exposing your LFP then you probably had it coming anyway, and dying to a weakspot is something every tank can do.
The T90M turret carousel is infamous for its ‘Driver engine’. If you’ve played warthunder for a while, you would know what I mean.
I see, you think I own 2 accounts. I dont, my brother owns one because, I just use it. Thats fine under the TOS, because it says you cant create 2.
I have not once said that the T90m is atrocious, quite the opposite infact. The T90 is easily in the top 3 or top 4, depending on your playstyle, MBTs.
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I hate to say this, but since when are those “very good K/D”?
They just seem decent-solid at best.
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I’m pretty sure it’s just ironic. I hope at least.
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The T-90M is not even close to the Abrams/Type 10/Leclerc/Merkava Mk.4 in terms of potential, let alone to the Strv 122/Leo 2A7.
Not suprising coming from someone who only has British MBTs at rank 8 and can’t even make the Challenger 2s work.
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They never were. Stats like this are generally quite bad. Personally I think good stats start with having a 2K/D
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Did you know the funniest part?
He didn’t get it
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My dude, I have the chinese rank 8 mbts, and like i have said about 4 times, the russian ones as well. I have actually played the british MBTs for a long time, and can do quite well in them, but it is much more difficult and requires a lot more focus than just, holding W like I can do in russia. I also have rank 8 germany.
The T90M is actually pretty close to some of the abrams series, type 10/tkx, leclerc and merkava, it probably just doesnt feel that way, because most of the players who play those vehicles (with the exception of the abrams) are usually very skilled, because its usually not their first nation. And of course its not going to be close to the leopard or strvb, thats because IRL they are also exceptional MBTs, and this is true for all other top teir tanks not just the T90M. The leopard and Strv are better when compared to ALL other top teir tanks
M1A2T made top tier China 10x better than it used to be, J-10C, Z-10ME, AH-64E, and HQ11 also helped immensely.
France has a great all round lineup with 6 great MBTs, 2 good SPAA, Great CAS in Rafale and AH-64E, and the EBRC Jaguar is a solid light tank.
Italy is likely the weakest of the 3 here, but 2A7HU, Aster, EF2K AESA, are all great, with some pretty good lights like Freccia and the AMV is surprisingly workable.
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I don’t suggest arguing with him, you’re not going to change his mind, he is far too stubborn.
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My brother in Christ, I like those nation at top tier, (I don’t have china tbh) but they are nowhere close to the Russian top tier, the only one that comes close is France only and I repeat, ONLY, for the Rafale.
Russian top tier is just CAS, and Pantsir/BUK if you like to torture yourself. Its not bad, but the lack of good tanks hurts. Other nations have great CAS as well, but don’t sacrifice on tanks.
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I would hope so too, but being on this forum has learned that some people seriously think those are good stats.
I’m not the best player but I usually also aim for at least ~2 K/D for vehicles I enjoy, maybe 1.0-1.5 K/D for the stock grind.
Yeah I just did see your comment about your alt.
However you have a 0.7 K/D and K/S in your T-90M, that doesn’t show “I’m doing quite well in it” at all. Hell that shows the complete opposite.
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The two account rule you speak of “3.4: User shall not create multiple Accounts” was not around in the terms of service even in 2023. It’s a more recent addition to the ToS.
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Yeah I’m probably wasting my time, but I’m also quite stubborn so I can’t let it go yet.
I guess I usually just learn things the hard way.
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I don’t know why but on paper Russian tanks just don’t fit my play style but when I play them I just have fun, you just turn off the brain and play.
Having said this I find the Russian tanks just as good as the other nations if not better just because the survive everything, so many shots that had to kill the tank just don’t do it and that makes them broken.
You’ve never played the T-72B3, T-72B '87, T-72B '89, T-72B3 Arena nor T-72B3M.
I’m honestly at a loss for what’s going on here.
My list of explanations for your comments has been quickly reduced to: ‘Is likely trolling’, but then you’ve only been polite to me, so I’m at a loss here.
Quite the understatement.
I’ve had my DM53 fired from a Leopard 2A6 intercepted at 950 meters distance.
Being able to regularly negate 2+ APFSDS rounds fired at you (Black Night) -vs- Having your turret popped by APFSDS on the first shot because APS doesn’t interact with APFSDS (T-72B3A) is a MASSIVE difference.
So far I’ve given you countless examples and comparisons that show 11.7 is the appropriate BR, and you’ve not addressed any of those arguments, yet you’re still maintaining 11.7 would be too low.
At this point you’re simply sticking to what you believe not because it’s true, but because you want it to be so.
Going by previous comments, I’m not even sure if you know what Kontakt-5 is.
Okay, this confirms you don’t know what Kontakt-5 is…
You don’t even know the most basic things, yet you’re arguing about their proper BR’s?
Sigh… Of course you do…
Sounds like you’re not aiming for the areas that are highlighted. I’m not experiencing any of those problems.
Volumetric applies to all vehicles equally, you’ll encounter volumetric nonsense on an Abrams’ turret ring or gun shield as well, but that doesn’t mean D/JM33 cannot penetrate those areas (reliably), it just means sometimes RNG kicks in.
S Tier: Strv 122A, 122B+, 122B PLSS, Leopard 2A7V, 2A7HU.
A Tier: M1A2, M1A2 SEP, Type 10.
B Tier: Leopard 2A5, 2A6, 2 PSO, T-80BVM, Challenger 2E, Leclerc S1, S2, SXXI, AZUR.
C Tier: Ariete AMV, T-90M, Challenger 2 (2F)
F Tier: T-72B3A, Challenger 2 OES, TES
Please feel free to take another glance at this:
It is significantly less mobile than:
- M1A1’s, M1A2’s, Leopard 2A6/2A5/2PSO, 2A7V, T-80BVM, T-80U-E1, T-80U, Challenger 2E, Type 90, Type 90B, Type 10, ZTZ-99A, M1A2T, WZ1001, Ariete AMV, Leclerc S1, S2, SXXI, AZUR, Strv 122A, 122B+, 122B PLSS, Merkava Mk.4, Mk.4M.
In other words: it’s slower than 95% of it’s opposition. The only vehicles in that chart which have inferior mobility are ones at significantly lower BR’s.
It’s simply delusional at this point to claim that the T-90M’s mobility is ‘‘Not far behind’’.
Nearly everything does, moot point.
The difference is that the T-90M has that appalling -6° of gun depression. That’s why it’s gun handling characteristics are worse than it’s peers.
Name me a single 12.7 MBT that has a slower reload than a T-90M.
And let’s not pretend that the penetration of the T-90M is anything special just because it happens to be FIVE WHOLE MILIMETERS higher than the literal lowest of the low.
- DM53: 629mm @ 1000m
- M829A2: 613mm
- DM53 (Italy): 599mm
- Type 10: 594mm
- M338: 586mm
- slpprj m/95: 565mm
- OFL 120F1: 557mm
- 3BM-60: 557mm
- DTC10-125: 556mm
- L27A1: 552mm
Every time you’ll make this claim, I’ll remind you of your 0.7 K/D and 0.68 K/spawn ratios in the T-90M.
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i genuinely want to know why you put Type 10 at A. especially the pro and con between USSR, GER, and US
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