And that’s with just a week with the update.
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Dude Kontakt 5 never fully stops a round from going through, kontakt 5 like other era destroy parts of the round which does not allow it to penetrate main armor . World war two shells will never pen frontal plate or turret cheeks of any T-72 or 64 vehicles. This part: " Even the biggest ATGMS fired by an aircraft are still effectively flying at supersonic speed headfirst into a supersonic interceptor. Missiles don’t like that and tend to break when it happens". This part tells me that you know very little about angles of attack and you are making bogus statement about missiles fired from an aircraft braking upon encountering APS “supersonic intercepter”. In IRL things dont work like that.
APS vs missiles fired from helicopters and airplanes are still very, very ineffective.
Well my idea is that since other nations dont have LIMUR is to simply not allow aps to intercept missiles fired from heli’s in IRL aps intercepting such threats is eroneous at best and happens only in pre-set conditions at an angles of attack that favour the aps. Dont go by military brochuers they are as good as Santa’s presents.
They soon made us all suffer again Ka-50 was the start
So the part of Gajiin only favouring soviets is as true as trophy intercepting LIMUR.
depends on what you consider soon. The AH-1Z was released in september 2018 and the Ka-50 was released in october 2019.
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“APS vs missiles fired from helicopters and airplanes are still very, very ineffective.”
Source? Other than you making it up?
I know far more about the subject of airborne munitions than you ever will. You’d be well served by thinking about the physics at play. I’ll give you a hint.
On ships. Look at the relative size of a CIWS round vs. the missiles they are designed to intercept. You don’t need a very big mass to upset/destroy a missile travelling at high velocities. Physics does the work for you.
My point stands. If an incoming round/missile is within the engagement zone of an APS such as Trophy - the APS will make an intercept. If the APS connects then there is no way that munition is staying in one piece.
There is no video evidance from several conflicts to suggest that aps can credibly shoot down missiles from planes and helicopters, that is aps on tanks and other vhicles, it shows me about you knowledge when you are using “ships” as an example a platform that is like x10 the size of a tank you can fit an array of anti missile systems, if it was just aps on board we would have the entire navy underwater by now. Your point abour aps shooting down incoming missiles ( at greater velocities than regular atgms) at angels greater than 65 degrees have no video evidance just brochuers and army talk.
Trying to locate and the shoot an incoming missile is one of the hardest things to do, sensor wont save you nearly as much as they are stated.
Okay - let’s try and put it a different way.
Exhibit A - Anti Ship Missile / This is big.
Exhibit B - 20mm Phalanx round. This is small.
Now, is an anti-ship missile bigger than a plane ATGM? Yes or no?
Are the APS munitions bigger than a 20mm cannon round? Yes or no?
Are such massive high speed anti-ship missiles broken up by comparatively small, lightweight defensive rounds? Yes or no?
If the incoming munition is within the field of fire of the APS (e.g. Trophy can cover virtually the entire upper hemisphere of a tank) then an APS has a very good chance of successfully knocking an inbound atgm out.
An APS doesn’t need to match the weight/force of the inbound any more than those little 20mm CIWS rounds need to.
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Mi 35 was still good just the Ka-50 with Vikhrs broke the game.
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Nice argument senator, why dont you back it up with a source
Budy I understand what you are saying, the anti aircaft gun on a ship is not the same as a trophy system on a tank that shoots several projectiles upwards to intercept the incoming round. It takes quite a few programablem rounds to shoot the missle which you have displayed. They are entirely different systems, please whatch several youtube videos of Merkava tank’s trophy systems not even responding to incoming projectiles and having to count on well built armor. There are TV guided missles to which APS systems will not even respond to.
The part of trophy having a very good chance of knocking out an atgm is true but those are ground based usually not coming from an angle greater than 40 degrees, Trophy in theory covers the tank but it will not go off on every single munition that is a fact proven in IRL. This is not to discredit trophy but you are comparing two different systems, a designated programable anti aircarft gun and its rounds to trophy sorry bud but that is like comparing apples and oranges.
I agree with you statments about programable rounds and anti-aircraft systems on a ship but that is not the same as trophy aps on a tank. The discussion is about that. And anti aircaft guns on a ship will not shoot every incoming missile, hint hypersonic or missile overload.
Ships have an entire radar station tracking incoming targets and multiple operators, tanks dont have that.
Please read even this article which clearly shows the well built armor vs aps.
Trophy Active Protection System Fails to Protect Merkava | TURDEF and this is just a surface based article nothing in depth.
Marketing lies tbh, not like the Kh-38MT, that’s 100% realistic in game. <3
Thank god they made this more accurate for the upcomming MITL, few, can’t wait for other NATO missiles to get this special treatment
Spoiler
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wdym they do not response??? the mayority of videos cut the recording before hitting and never show the aftermatch, while some few shows a Merkava tank not operative turnedd off (and so the Trophy system its also off).
Tho yeah, Trophy will not likely be able to destroy a big missile like KH-31 or KH-38
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Phalanx and similar systems dont use programmable rounds. They just fire old fashioned tungsten AP - kinetic effects.
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If anything a missile coming in at higher/steeper angles of attack are easier for APS sensors to detect. Less ground clutter and a clearer return.
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A tank is easier to defend than a ship. It is smaller - your APS doesn’t need to worry about covering other ships - just the immediate zone around the tank.It is also dealing with smaller munitIons. Even the largest ATGM from a plane/helo is nothing compared to a small Anti-Ship missile in terms of speed and mass. Remember - you don’t even need to destroy a missile outright - you can destroy the fuzing/sensors or mess up it’s aerodynamics to cause your very finely balanced flying munition to miss.
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You underestimate just how energetic an interception from a modern APS is. Trophy uses an explosive formed projectile method - effectively launching an incredibly fast and focused projectile into an inbound round. It can effectively cut it in two.
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Defence Websites are fine and all - I wouldn’t take anything from them as the last word on a matter. Far better is to see what people are actually doing/spending money on. Note how many nations are all equipping their MBTs/AFVs with APS. In a world of drones, top attack missiles and better air-launched ATGMs - most militaries are heading down the APS route. They would not do this without a certain degree of confidence that the systems do what they are designed to.
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A tank with APS stands a better chance against an air launched ATGM than one without. You can query the precise chances or probabilities of a successful intercept of something like Kh-38 - but the fact remains that APS adds another layer of defense that was simply not available a few years ago.
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There are more instances of throphy not intercepting incoming projectiles, as you stated it could have been turned off, turret not pointing towards incoming projectile and simply flying at an angle greater than 65 degrees, there is no aftermath because they did not pen the armor of the tank in many places Merkava tanks have about 1200mm of protection against heat projectiles.
This is about me trying to support the idea of trophy not working as many in warthunder beleive it to work. Not about the tank or its survivability. Not many people pay attention to things like that especially crazed otter who is now explaining how anti-aircraft systems on a ship work which is not the intent of teh comment. As we know Merkava has several protective layers and trophy is only one of them. To be fair trophy might be its weakest link.
My idea is for the game is not to create scenarios in which aps regadless of make start intercepting airborn munition for which there is very little evidence.
Ok I am not arguing about its effectivness against atgms in the video you are showing an rpg round launched at it, not a hellfire missile or any other air launched missile, my original intent was to make sure that gajiin does not give aps (trophy, arena, etc…) capabilities of shooting down missiles fired by airborn platforms since there is hardly any evidence of it occuring. Sure in theory and in specific scenarios they might be able to do it but havent seen any video evidence of the sort you just provided.
I agree with you about it being necessary without a doubt. Its just that the game should not all of a sudden allow aps to start intercepting projectiles it cant do.
What is different of a Javelin fired from the ground or a hellfire from the air??? absolutely ZERO the only things that matters is what the aps covers and the speed it can detect and intercept a munition, some aps cant intercept munitions coming from above because they don’t have such coverage ( Drozd APS) meanwhile modern APS systems like the Trophy and Arena or Iron Fist have a 360 coverage that can see and intercept any munition by any direction except if the munition is too slow or too fast