Russian Teams Steamrolling NATO - Top Tier is Broken Again?

[Tsumibito42-psn]

All good haven’t played it did two matches of Nuclear thunder and felt like burning something to the ground lol.

The Russian MBT’s are mid but I feel a lot of the frustration comes from the fact they are being propped up in effectiveness by selective buffing and nerfing to it as well as they have the most inconsistency in them. Things like ammo failing to Det, lack of components the autoloaders and other parts acting as spall liners ect ect, like yeah they are mid but other tanks often feel held back to keep these tanks in the loop which can be annoying.

Like I play Japan it was super upsetting to see that component they were going to give the Type 10 to slow down its autoloader if it was hit, but not seeing this present for the Russian Mbts.

So like I’m not going to preach about Russian tanks being some unstoppable monster but like I totally get where the frustration comes from with other players.

[PantherBait]

Unfortunately representative sampling is a thing and multimillion dollar companies use it all the time.

Why? Because it is actually a relatively reliable form of data.

[MotorolaCRO]

Sampling shouldn’t be done in a place literally made for people to mald in lol.

[kedrigern]

@_Renzo

Gaijin adds OP stuff to different nations all the time, often partially as an overcorrection. This is exactly the case for the Pantsir SM-SV.

Overcorrection?
Overcorrection of S1 being an SPAA a whole generation above every other SPAA in the game while people were using rolands and ADATS?
Overcorrection of Russian players being incompetent with extremely potent missiles in form of Kh29T/TE/TD so they get a missile a whole generation over everything else ingame, capable of high supersonic speed, almost guaranteed overpressure kill and IR seeker while once again being part of the only nation with an SPAA capable of countering it while every other nation had squat?
Overcorrection of adding SLM into the game that was the first very SPAA to actually protect the ground forces somewhat from people that were using Su34s and Su30s as guaranteed kill farms because they just flew up high and pressed space incapable of doing anything else so they add an LDIRCM immune helicopter both to china and russia in the same update and the very next one give the russian one the hands down best heli ATGM ingame?
Overcorrection of what exactly has led gaijin to add a T90B/M chassis with unmanned autocannons and missiles with ammo belts that are literally cut in half by Gaijin themeselves telling us that “no no, only the bottom part of the ammo actually functions like ammo, the upper one? thats actually just non-explosive ammo-shaped glowsticks”
And the best thing is that in dev it actually blew up when you hit it!

It is not overcorrection, it is at best an immeasurable incompetence and at worst blatant bias towards a nation that the developers are from. Hungary based company is hardly a joke if majority of them are in Moscow.

Imagine any single one pvp game, where the developers include a blatantly overpowered champion/weapon/armor/items/etc. but only to one side and leave it like that FOR YEARS!
Imagine playing League of Legends or any other multitude of MOBAs where one champion would be game breakingly broken to the point where they can solo the entire match on their own.
Because that is literally what weve seen.
Spawn a light tank, scout a few times, spawn fully loaded Su34, get 6-12 free kills, get shot down, spawn Su30SM because its cost isnt shared, kill the plane that killed you, get 6-12 free kills, finally die, spawn in the hands down best SPAA at the time to effortlessly shoot down enemy planes, respawn in an Su34 backup.
And after they changed the SP costs literally the only thing that happened is that players exchanged Su34 for Mi28NM lmao.

@_Renzo

Leo 2s and Challengers got spall liners the same update as the T-90M. That “took a while” was at most 2-3 weeks.

THEY WERENT EVEN PLANNED!!!
Or have you forgotten that the only vehicle that was planned to have spall liners was literally just T90M and nothing else until there was an uproar and gaijin have cracked to put it on other tanks. If that hadnt happened T90M would have been the only one and the fact that they were playing with the thought of “anti-radiation liner” in T90A now acting as a semi-spall liner recently is telling enough.

@_Renzo

KH38MT on the Su-34 and Su-30SM/SM2 was a mistake, I have never disputed that.

the most shameful and disgusting thing is that the very thing that you are calling a mistake is now happening with ARMs.
According with BVVD they are planning on adding ER HARMs however this will take a long time and lets be honest, given their previous track record i personally dont have high hopes for it.
So putting that aside, we now once again have an extremely strong, extremely fast (faster than any other missile ingame, where have i heard that before) missile with very large warhead (i really think im getting a deja vu rn) in high numbers (6x on Su30/34s, 4x on Su27SM) with wide band coverage… While NATO is using HARM Cs…

Im sure gaijin is just “overcorrecting” right now.

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

@kedrigern

It is not overcorrection, it is at best an immeasurable incompetence and at worst blatant bias towards a nation that the developers are from.

M1, 2A5, 2A6, DM53, 5s reload on NATO tanks, Leclerc S1, 2A7V, SLM, Type 90, M1A1, M829A3, etc.
All examples of “overcorrection” on Gaijins part. All of these vehicles/changes were arguably or straight up unnecessary, OP, or “overcorrection”.
It is easier to just accept that Gajiin is a business with shtty business practices, being that they prioritize chasing the bag over everything else.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

Stock M829A2…

[PantherBait]

I mean, you only get 5 second reload after you spade the tank… and most people you face are definitely not spaded.

And then your loader gets injured or killed… and then it goes up to what? Slower than the T series who have an auto loader and call also still aim and shoot back unlike the basket gang.

Also, you can’t ignore everything that dude just said over a five second reload. He brought up some good points. But you two are so angry that y’all can’t meet in the middle.

[PantherBait]

Yeah that was unnessary. They should’ve just fixed the armor.

But also they gave everyone the previously best round stock. Wish they hadn’t, felt a bit like a here you go shut up to the community

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

@PantherBait

I mean, you only get 5 second reload after you spade the tank… and most people you face are definitely not spaded.

Wdym? Spading does not correlate with reload speed.
Level 0 crew is 6s, still on par with T-80 and ACED Leo, and faster than T-72 style autoloaders.
Upgraded loader with basic crew is 5.8, faster than any Leo/T-80.
Experted is 5.3, and this is an amazing reload speed.
Aced is 5s, which is not that different to 5.3.

@PantherBait

And then your loader gets injured or killed… and then it goes up to what? Slower than the T series who have an auto loader and call also still aim and shoot back unlike the basket gang.

You’ve lost 2 crew. A T-XX in this scenario is dead.

@PantherBait

Also, you can’t ignore everything that dude just said over a five second reload. He brought up some good points. But you two are so angry that y’all can’t meet in the middle.

Which is why I brought in other points. Gaijin likes money, they favor no nation. I am not angry though.

[_Renzo]

@kedrigern

It is not overcorrection, it is at best an immeasurable incompetence and at worst blatant bias towards a nation that the developers are from.

Ok, but what are the MBT/Kpz-70, Leo 2K, M1, M247, AH-1Z, Leo 2A5, ADATS, M1A2, Strv 122A, Leo 2A6/Strv 122B PLSS, Puma, Leo 2A7s, Strv 122B+.

And these were just a handful of the list of NATO vehicles that released overpowered-absurdly overpowered.

@kedrigern

THEY WERENT EVEN PLANNED!!!

Just like M829A1 and L27A1 weren’t planned when Gaijin was adding the Leo 2A6 with DM53. Does that mean German bias?

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

@_Renzo

And these were just a handful of the list of NATO vehicles that released overpowered-absurdly overpowered.

kedrigern:

OP Vehicles, some were, some still are, some on release, some after a significant buff:
PakPuma, XP-50, Aerfer Ariete, Sagittario 2, M4A3 105, M1 Abrams, AH-1Z, Leopard 2K, Leopard 2A4, Leopard 2A5, Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2AV, PT-16/T-14 Mod., Strv 122A, Type 90, Leclerc S1, German KV-1B, CW-21, TURM III, IPM1, M1A1, Coelian, HE 100, P-39N, J2M2, R3 T20, Mitsubishi T-2, EBR 1954, Gepard, XM246, ItPsV 90, ZA-35, Falcon, AMX-30 DCA, Harrier, SdKfz 140/1, F-14A, F-4E, XM800T, VIDAR, Kpz/MBT-70, Puma, T18E2, Schützenpanzer PUMA, Ki-44-II, T58, T20, M4A3E2 75 Jumbo, M4A3E2 76 Jumbo, Calliope, P-59, Conqueror, Centurion Mk.2, Centurion Mk.3, Tiger H1, Tiger E, Rafale C F3, Mirage 2000 CS5/CS4, Mirage 3C, F-15E/F-15I, CL-13B, JAS39A, FJ-4B VMF (Ground), F2G-1, P-51C, F4U-1, P-39N, F8F-1, P-51D-10, P-38L, F4U-4, P-51H, F-80C, F4U-4B, F-86Fs, F-18A, F-8U, LIM-5P, Spitfire LF MK.9, Sea Meteor, Typhoon Mk.1B, A7M2, Ki-84 Ko2, B7A2 Homare, F-5s, VL Pyörremyrsky, A-4E (Ground), Leo 1 L/44, G.91 (Ground), T14, Magach Hydra, Merkava Mk.3 (US), Merkava Mk.2 (US), Merkava Mk.1 (US), XM803, XM1 Chrysler, XM1 GM, IRIS-T SLM, M24DK, A-10A Early, A-10C, LVT M24, L-62 ANTI, B1 Ter, P40, Somua SM, A6M5 Ko, Tiger UHT, YAH-64, AH-64E, Z-10ME, Mi-28A (Sweden), G-Lynx, Merkava Mk.4M LIC, AH Mk.1 Apache, A-129 CBT/International, AH-60 (Israel), F-16A, AGS, T 80 U (Sweden), A-1H (Ground), Ho-Ri Production, TAM, TAM 2IP, FV4030/2 Shir 2, TTD, M4A1, M4, M4A2, CV 90105, A-6E TRAM, Strf 9040B, Strf 9040C, Strf 9040 BILL, Lvkv 9040C, Begleitpanzer 57, Ka-Chi, T29, M551 (76), Ru 251, VT1-2, Class 3 (P), Fox, OF-40 Mk.2, OF-40 (MTCA), Leopard 40/70, Lorraine 40t, AMX-40, Strv 103A/-0,

[PantherBait]

Don’t recall most of these being oppressove to the point that the BMPT was, or the AA systems Russia recently got - or the Kh38, or lemurs.

I recall the T72 whatever premium pack being absolutely busted for a long time. The Ka50/52s with vikers being absolutely oppresively busted, 2S38 was busted and couldn’t be breached.

Lots of other stuff.

That said, I do remember how busted the PUMA was for a while. I do not have top tier air so can’t speak to that - but there hasn’t been any other CAS nuking me from orbit as consistently as the Kh38s.

Now, I am not a top player. I’m okay, more average than not depending on the week. I also don’t have a squad I run with, I’ve played solo for a long time so that’s probably another contributing factor.

But at the end of the day, when game after game is full of one death leavers for my team, and me doing good is a slog fest of being willing to out spawn the enemy long enough to possibly even the play field - idk bro it feels bad. Your experience is as a top level player running with a squad of other top level players, which makes you statistical outliers.

The majority of the player base does not play at your level - hopefully that makes some sense.

[_Renzo]

@PantherBait

Don’t recall most of these being oppressove to the point that the BMPT was, or the AA systems Russia recently got - or the Kh38, or lemurs.

US top tier ground march 2018 - march 2019 was arguably just as if not more oppressive than the BMPT situation (and no I don’t mean this in a way to justify the BMPT being stupidly busted). I don’t think we have ever seen such a level of domination for such a long time again on the ground.

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

@PantherBait

Don’t recall most of these being oppressove to the point that the BMPT was

Some were as, less, or more busted, but that doesnt change that they were busted. My point with this was not to justify 10.3/7 BMPT, rather to just show that RU isnt the only nation to get OP vehicles.

[PantherBait]

Got it. I hadnt made it there yet I don’t think, so I missed that.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@PantherBait

BMPT

PUMA

[Tsumibito42-psn]

Not all of these are NATO vehicles but we can let that slide, but you clearly just listed off a bunch of vehicles and didn’t think anyone would actually read this, for example the F2G-1 super corsair wasn’t broken on release considering its still like the same BR and also isn’t broken now in fact it probably has better performance now that some of the early jets were moved up in BR. The F-18A wasn’t really broken in fact most of the F-18’s have been kind of eh upon release, The AH-1Z was good for America but not really busted, neither was the Z-10ME which was actually god awful on release. The A-10’s all fell into the kind of not useful upon release role as better options existed already, So did the Tram as well, the Italian helicopter have also never really been all that good even the one that had spikes was considered on the worse end. Like there is a lot of vehicles in this list that very much were not near the realm of op.

So forgive me but I don’t think anyone should take this list seriously at all.

[PantherBait]

I think thats fair, yeah youre right. But I think the issue is that it currently has force multipliers that ARE and have been oppressive for the average player for a while now.

And I think people are at a point in their experience where emotions are strong and exhaustion with the status quo is driving their perspective to a further extreme.

[PantherBait]

I will add though, just because there were other busted things does not and should not invalidate the CURRENT issue.

You’re not wrong about the past, but your application of it here isn’t being recieved by people who have either:

A. Missed the events and vehicles You’re talking about

B. Are currently average players having an oppressive experience that’s gone on for a while.

It does not help that there was a post shortly after the BMPT was launched that showed internal and hidden armors/spall modifiers. At that time, I don’t think mods addressed it so that has further enflamed and reinforced an experienced based opinion. I am not saying they are fully correct, but they are not entirely wrong.

[PantherBait]

Yeah I did mention that. It sucked fighting that at release.