Russian missile can have high penetration but Starstreak cannot tobarisch))))) it does not matter that both weapons should be hollow pre-fragmented tubes that would more readily pancake against anything decently tough rather than sailing through like nothing was there and generating a massive wall of fragmentation)) xaxaxaxa
I would also like to get Leopard2E and HEL version for additional backups for my German Line-Up.
And KF-41.
You know what, I agree overall.
I do think a lot of players connect their confidence on their armor (or lack thereof) too much in this game, but while interesting that discussion either is or would probably go a bit off topic.
3 Likes
Welcome to top tier. Its a cycle. Introduce X OP vehicle, so you have to introduce Y OP vehicle to counter it, so you have to introduce Z OP vehicle to counter it, etc.
Judging by how BVM got +600,000 players from August to September i’d say there is a considerable chunk of players that do this.
Its part of the issue for sure, but not all of the fault is on the lineup, its still rather decent in the current meta. 2A7V remains incredible, AESA Typhoon is good CAS, IRIS-T is great until an LDIRCM Heli shows up, and the other Leopards are still good. Tiger seems to be getting +4 PARS in the next update, whether or not they change the damage/flight path of them is up in the air, and something I do hope they change.
Tbf the “coutious” mentality starts from they’re 1th - “Tiger 1 days” (if they had any) or 2nd the days it only one (premium) MBT line up… In the 1th example, they’ve learned (the hard way) that the legendary Tiger is not the unkilleble monster that history channele painted it to be… so they sit back and look at each-other with the “you go first” mentality.
The 2nd example is self explanatory (and olso applicable for every nation)… level 1-100 range playes with a single MBT in they’re line up. Ofcourse that after 2-3 battles when they lose they’re ONLY vechicle in the first 1-2 minutes, they will be more coutious.
Btw on your line up comparioson…
Spoiler
you compare 6 slots line vs 5 slots… You have 3 MBTs on one side, but confine youre self to only two on the other… Why??? I get that swedish MBTs are more armored in general, but you exclude things like 2A5/PSO… They’re protection havent been changed and the ground threads that they face haven changed dramaticly and they are viable like before. I guess is more of a personal preference and not much of a objective arguement (on my side as well).
You talk about “proper armor values” for Puma (If I understand it right) while the CV 90 Mk. IV is less armored and with similar armaments…
I switched my 2A5 with PUMA WTJF because usually 2 tanks is more than enough.
As for the PSO I refused to use it due to lacking hull spall liners and additional armor on ufp, if those changes happens in future I might use it.
For Swedish Line-up I don’t even use all my 122’s all the time, in fact I use Cv90 with 122+, the thing is having more armored leopards in your line-up boost your confidence cause you know you can always rely on them unlike German variants.
Cv90 also suffers from protection level indeed but unlike German line-up you have more armored Leopards which boost your hand a lot in sticky situations.
That is exactly what ive been saying the entire time.
For August and September you can actually see the exact playernumbers at each BR and russian 12.7 is at a +13000 and Germany is -5000. So like i said there is a player migration but its nowhere near big enough to impact global stats in such a big way on its own. If we add the 13.0 players to them we get a growth from 252000 to 278000, those additional 26000 players would need a 118,25% winrate to make the swing from 43.4% to 50.4% if the rest stays the same. If they had 100% then the rest would need to grow by 1.88% and if they had 70% then the rest would need +4.98%.
Which is precisely the problem, how is your lineup supposed to be meta if both your main selling points lose against the meta defining vehicle?
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unfortunately a lot of German players are afraid to have their paint scratched
To be fair, the 2A7’s and 122’s are very pretty tanks 😂
2 Likes
Wrong. If you have 5 of those 26000 in a single battle of 15v15 lets say and they pull a win, thats a winrate increase for all 15 people not only for those 5 thus the overall required % of winrate is way smaller because all of a sudden 15 people got 1 win not just 5
Its a weighted out average, not a precise calculation.Your argument would need a balanced distribution of all those players among all games which is unlikely. My calculations are simply there to show that the argument of player migration being the main driver of winrate increases is statistical nonsense. There are too many unknowns to make an actually precise calculation but i think you get the point.
Also your assumption still needs all additional 26000 players to be very good players which is already a big stretch since theres surely all kinds of players returning after an update.
Well there definitely is a factor to it…vehicle in question for whatever nation being one of them of course. Remember when Fuji was released? The endless sea of them ending rounds in 2-4 minutes? Thats exactly what is happening with the BMPT now even though BMPT doesnt have nearly as good of an effect as it did
Im not denying that there is a factor to it. Im just denying that it is the main influence behind winrate swings. Ihatecas is probably correct that theres is a vicious circle where nations without meta equipment bleed experienced players but the main driver of performance is the meta equipment.
If you look at real world events, they explain the shifts in this game…BMPT had some kind of a literal terminator reputation in certain part of Europe and when it was introduced here everyone wanted it as we can see. Fuji I doubt anyone knew about it but it was " The 4 seconds reload top tier tank" of sorts hence why everyone went for it. Su30MK AMV a fox 3 spammer at 13.3, Click Bait when it came out was a GIGANTIC sale…they were everywhere because it looked cool with the chair and stuff on it. If you just do one nation lets say RU since its my example…I like the look of some of the vehicles, I opened them to the end and I have a few premiums there but now I want the BMPT because I like the way it looks but I wont pay for the premium one because I basically finished the RU tech tree except the BMPT and Sprut line which were useless back in the days anyway so I avoided it. I will just grind and eventually some day get my hands on the tech tree BMPT but if you put something interesting in a tech tree that I dont have like the Fuji I will buy it. Hence thats the nations shift Gaijin is doing all the time and the playerbase not all of them but a good part of high performers do follow it. We like to cherry pick on RU Bias but the fact is there are biases all over the game if you want to look at it that way. Its not really bias its just laziness and every new premium vehicle proofs it.
I get what youre trying to say but the problem is that every influx of players would need to be a positive one, which in the case of premiums specifically, is not the case.
Yeah but like i said, not in the numbers needed to have that impact on their own.
Im not even cherry picking ru bias here, russia is as much a victim of powercreep (like when the new SPAA got added) as they are a perpetrator. I am just taking issue with the claim that current performance is mostly impacted by a difference in average player skill between the major playerbases.
Its not only the player skill and its not only the vehicle…its definitely a combo of both and a 3rd factor being Gaijins laziness in releasing vehicles with correct damage models, stats, whatever but I genuinely think they are doing that on purpose to create the whole drama like it is with BMPT so that it drives even more people towards it.
Also I am not trying to say that you specifically pick on RU but we as a community in general do
Yeah but the previous comments (not yours) made it seem like its specifically an issue of deteriorating player skill in one of the tree majors and not the vehicles.
Of ccourse. Releasing broken or OP stuff to bait people into buying it and then doing the same over and over is just live service game monetization 101
Sure but in this case its really not a russia specific issue.
Exactly, its the issue of the business model as a whole that Gaijin is practicing
Imo it cant only be the players…yes they have their role in it ofc but the vehicle being advantageous in certain situations or aspects enables you to exploit them
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Issue is lack of back-ups of comparable quality. Your choices are rather the (by today’s top tier standards), just average MBTs, or a very insignificant IFV (Poomer).
Sweden enjoys a better performance by comparison simply because they’ve got a much greater number of tanks of basically Tier 1 performance.
If Gaijin could just fix the 2A7V itself to be what it’s supposed to be, i.e:
- better turret protection (supposed to be 860mm+ KE and 1800mm+ CE)
- better hull protection (~750mm KE and 1500mm+ CE)
- remove the double spall modifier from the breach
- make the trunnion RHA/CHA like it’s supposed to be
- make the driver hatch volumetric so it actually catches stuff instead of being a “shoot here for 3 crewmembers dead”
- make the neck guard ACTUALLY BE A NECK GUARDe and stop APFSDS like please it’s a 600mm+ long piece of solid rolled homogenous steel, how is it not protecting the neck???
- re-do the turret model so that the TURRET RING is actually BELOW the turret face (like it’s supposed to be)
(and these don’t even scratch the surface of how much things the 2A7V would have to have corrected in order to be an actual counterpart of its real life version, as currently the 2A7V doesn’t even have turret armor as good as the 2A5…, and the 2A5 itself still doesn’t have the turret armor it should have based on Swedish trials, lol)
Just that alone would be a gamechanger for Germany’s performance as many would flock to an improved/fixed 2A7V.
Ain’t even gonna mention the fact DM53 is underperforming by close to 35mm of perforation.
Optionally, fixing the SLM so that it doesn’t become a meltie in face of a LDIRCM heli, because it’s not supposed to, and add a modification to the Leopard 2A6 that turns it into the Leopard 2A6MA3 with additional upper plate armor and ATTICA thermals for a second MBT in the line-up with 3rd generation sights. Because frankly going from the 2A7V to the 2A6 is painful.
4 Likes
2A5/6/PSO still remain quite good, however, I think the PSO deserves its extra hull armor.
Not quite. Most of these are rather insignificant changes that only change its performance in a very niche scenario. The UFP is already at the critical ricochet angle for APFSDS and needs to angled down significantly for something to pen it. The trunnion/barrel bug should be looked at though, you can occasionally kill a Leo through its entire barrel.
Is it? Is there a source, I like to save these. Current L/55 DM53 already has 700mm of LOS penetration @2 km.
I would prefer LDIRCM Helis getting a significant nerf overall.
Touched on this with PSO but I guess this can also work. Though I don’t think Germany should get more than 2 uparmored Leos.