Russian Teams Steamrolling NATO - Top Tier is Broken Again?

[An_Pigeon]

@__Renzo__

This so much, especially at top tier where expert often means the difference between life and death.

It makes a huge difference gameplay wise man, teh expert crew meaning you can pull harder without blacking out changes it massively.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

There will always be daft people out their, no need to sit and insult a random dude cause you don’t agree.

The problem is not that he disagrees with the index, the problem is that he claims it’s invalid due to the way it’s created which is complete and utter nonsense. I wouldn’t have called him stupid for a simple opinion but comparing a completely valid way to conduct statistics with gender studies or something is objectively stupid.

@An Pigeon

Shows how unreliable they are.

Surprise, no institution is flawless but they just have to be more reliable than the Russian government (in the case of this discussion) and have objective expertise in the topic they are researching.

@Whisloy

You sound like cultist

Is the concept of believing experts in a free society so scary to you?

[pineappleguy05]

I mean where can i see this data. You know where do they get the data

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@UniqueScorpions-live

You screen shot that and send it to me. Your so full it. Who upgrades four tanks? Pick your favorite ones. Not all of them

I upgrade every single tank, heli and plane i have in every nation at top tier except SPAA.
And for other BR lineups just single ones.

[_Renzo]

@Max__Damage

You’re so easily brainwashed

Ironic since you have been known to be the same for years now.

[Jεcka]

And your source for “DM53 struggling” with K-5 is?

Oh right, vaporwave cus its you lol

[Max_Damage]

I remember the manufacturer of the round itself saying smth like
defeating tanks equipped with k5 is a considerably difficult affair
I don’t have the source on my hands right now this has been discussed on ru forums few months earlier.
However this aligns with in game implementation and i agree with it.
53 doesn’t have outstanding anti k5 features its a bm42 equivalent in this regard.
A3 is another story

Not that i[ matters sabot ammo is pointless

[KnightsCross20-psn]

CAS has definitely become a thorn in GRB. After not playing TT ground in many months, I seen a huge uptick in CAS. It’s getting to the point where I die more from an air vehicle, than another tank.

[Jεcka]

They never stated that, i’ve all RHM brochures for DM53 and nothing like that was ever said. In fact they ALWAYS mention the opposite. In some they in fact outright say the round works on the same basis as Tandem ATGMs so it being “3BM-42 equal in this regard” is just yout fantasy lol.

Quit making things up.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Tbf I’ve done that with the SU-27s because you pass out on the first little turn XD.

Ground? Only my favs tbh

[An_Pigeon]

Im not kidding, every single jet past about 10.0 i am using i will expert it.

I cannot stand pulling 10Gs then blacking out while the other guys out there like a UFO purely due to crew level difference.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

I think the:

Su-27s
Su-34
Su-30SM

And maybe the Mig-29(9-13) are my expert vehicles for air.

And my B-25J, merely due to the quicker reload. Low tier planes is quite fun in mass bomber squads.

Other than that I think I expert more helis for survivability purpose.

[An_Pigeon]

Yeah, i have yet to learn how to use helis properly tbf.

Though its my next endevour.
Expert crews on every plane for the most part especially higher BRs as the advantages are absolutely noticeable

[Alexanderussss]

@An Pigeon

You realise the BVm has the same composite layout as the T80B right?
The ERA saves it.

The ERA is still a part of the armor, no? And what does the T80B have to do with any of this?

@An Pigeon

The BVM has lower levels of turret protection.
larger breach weawk point.
less depression meaning that it has to expose both more of the turret and tank, as well as it also cannot use more effective hull down positions.

The BVM is straight up smaller, there’s no way you’re convincing me that it has a larger weakspot when the entirety of the upper turret of a Leopard is an overpressure one-tap for any russian tank.

@An Pigeon

the leopard can actively turn the entire tank around faster than a BVM can, it can reverse

Why are you yapping about reverse speed all the time? Just accept that the BVM has better forward mobility; there’s no point in bringing up reverse if we both agree that the reverse is one of the drawbacks. And the better forward mobility is not made irrelevant by a poor reverse speed.

@An Pigeon

You state that but the 2a6 and BVM have extremely close HP/PT as the 2A6 sits at what 25.2 or some nonsense and the 80 BVM sits at 26.6, theres barely a 1HP PT difference, which BTW doesn’t equate entirely to mobility, the low profile of the BVM means it tends to move ^slower in worse terrain, same as if you slam the Type 90s or the KPZ etc.

FYI, the 2A6 sits at 25hp/t. That is a 1.6hp/t difference, and the BVM has a higher top speed. And please, your feelings of how the BVM tends to move slower are pretty irrelevant here… let’s stick to the facts

@An Pigeon

I am also the average player I’ve a 1.0 KD in GRB and a 1.12 KD in ARB

I’m discussing how much you have played. 10k games in Ground alone, you have plenty of SL laying over to expert your crews. That’s not to speak of how much you have lying over from grinding air.

@An Pigeon

It is also unreasonable to assume everyone is not.

Please, your entire argument is relying on the false absolute that everyone at toptier has spent over four million SL on experting their crews, and that everyone has played several thousand games to have said millions laying over. For what? A 0.2 faster reload? The reality is, even if this false absolute were to be true, the reload rates would be almost identical. And since we’re discussing reload rates, your entire argument would be entirely negated by one party firing 0.2 seconds before the other.

@An Pigeon

then acts as if all the negatives about it aren’t that bad

You’re actively ignoring all of the pros of the BVM. Thermals? doesn’t matter. Reload? well, 25% of the time it’s 0.2 secounds worse! so that makes the BVM horrible reload!!! Forward speed that rivals the Type 10? B-But reverse speed is poor, so stop talking about mobility!!! “And in this one scenario when im on a hill…”. While completely also ingoring the strong frontal plate armor, survivability, small drivers weakspot etc.

Do you have any actual arguments other than “muh uh my bvm fires 0.2 seconds slower 25% of the time” or “but sometimes my bvm ricochets on a type10”.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@Alexanderussss

Please, your entire argument is relying on the false absolute that everyone at toptier has spent over four million SL on experting their crews, and that everyone has played several thousand games to have said millions laying over.

Yes it’s so hard to get silverlions in this game.

@Alexanderussss

For what? A 0.2 faster reload? The reality is, even if this false absolute were to be true, the reload rates would be almost identical.

The faster repair time is also a very big advantage.

[An_Pigeon]

@Alexanderussss

The ERA is still a part of the armor, no

Well aware, that’s not to do with my point.

@Alexanderussss

And what does the T80B have to do with any of this

I merely used it as an example to show you the composite array is the same on the 10.7 T80B it’s based off of.
Unlike say the 2a7 which is upgraded compared to the 2a4.

@Alexanderussss

when the entirety of the upper turret of a Leopard is an overpressure one-tap for any russian tank

Got a shred of proof for that mate, not once has that happened to me across spading the 2pl,2a5 and A6.

@Alexanderussss

you’re convincing me that it has a larger weakspot

Then you’ve absolutely no idea how dimensions work ?

The T80 has to expose more of itself, to use less areas of the map.

The T80 tank is lower they are in fact wider in general.
So the turret is naturally going to be wider just not longer. As we said the breach point on the 80BVM is marginally bigger

@Alexanderussss

And the better forward mobility is not made irrelevant by a poor reverse speed

You completely ignored any and all relevance to it brushing it off massively.

Pretty dishonest of you. Though not surprising.

@Alexanderussss

your feelings of how the BVM tends to move slower are pretty irrelevant here… let’s stick to the facts

The fact is the lower profile of the vehicle means in worse terrain that is modelled in game, itll move slower.

Those are facts not feelings.
You seem to be getting emotional and aggravated over this, I’m not phased.

@Alexanderussss

I’m discussing how much you have played. 10k games in Ground alone, you have plenty of SL laying over to expert your crews.

When i was at your point my entire top tier british lineup was experted.
You’re saying this as if you’ve played a fraction of what I have.

My SL gain isn’t relevant as well due to a large portion of my games in GRB being from before the economy overhaul when most games resorted in a loss. Especially as i wasnt as good then as now.

@Alexanderussss

Please, your entire argument is relying on the false absolute that everyone at toptier has spent over four million SL on experting their crews

You don’t realise how your argumentative point is just the same but the reverse?
As you’ve seen almost everyone who responded to you has ar least some of their tanks aka 2 or 3 with expert crews.

@_Renzo does
Im sure @AlvisWisla will have
@UniqueScorpions-live did mention it too.

You’d be literally hampering yourself not to have expert crews past 11.0

@Alexanderussss

or what? A 0.2 faster reload? The

For an advantage which will actively allow you to out shoot the opponent, even if it is a mere 0.2 seconds.

@Alexanderussss

this false absolute were to be true,

You know what a false absolute is right? Cause I’ve just reversed what you said, I never stated that everyone at top tier definitely, absolutely or certainly has an expert crew
I stated that most folks do, which is a generalised sweeping statement, not an absolute false.

Unlike what you stated that the average players dont have expert crews, which is you certifiably stating they do not have expert crews which is an absolute false.

So rather than sling English you know nothing about around, read what is said.

@Alexanderussss

You’re actively ignoring all of the pros of the BVM. Thermals? doesn’t matter. Reload?

Reload isn’t a positive as weve discussed.

Thermals are gen 2/3 same as every 12.7 tank bar the 2a6 which as Gen 2 commanders thermals.

@Alexanderussss

B-But reverse speed is poor, so

Its a massive detriment.

Survivability is garbage

Round is bellow average

Reload is below Average as most tanks get a 5 second reload with better rounds.

Mobility forwards is good sure but it’s not as if its unrivaled at the BR.
Most top tiers bar merkava and cr2 aren’t far apart mobility wise. Bar the soviet reverse speeds as china rectified that.

If you’d actually played any other nation than sweden which is meta then you’d have a clue why it’s not just me.telling you this.

Also the repair times for 3 crew arw worse.

[An_Pigeon]

@Alexanderussss

And in this one scenario when im on a hill…”

The frontal plate armour is about the only actual good point…even then you have the turret ring, lfp, drivers port, breach and the fact you can nuke the crew and auto loader through the roof.

The entire turret ring on the T series tanks again if you’d used them you’d know.

Rather than coming on here to vent the big bad BVM is OP learn the game.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

the turret ring, lfp, drivers port, breach and the fact you can nuke the crew and auto loader through the roof.

Except for the autoloader part, how is any of that different to quite literally any tank in the game?

[MotorolaCRO]

I don’t have all the specifics but you can probably find them all on their official discord.

[AlvisWisla]

@An Pigeon

As you’ve seen almost everyone who responded to you has ar least some of their tanks aka 2 or 3 with expert crews.

I definitely do, and it’s primarily to get better mobility.