I know better than you that Russian bias absolutely exists, and has since day 1 of AT LEAST Ground Forces (perhaps not SO MUCH Air).
well said. and why i asked for evidence
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Factually known in game? You mean what you heard by other people? I’m proving with screenshots and data here that it’s not the case. Both have differences in where they’re survivable and where aren’t.
Abrams does have cheeks which protect frontally but hull is guaranteed disable and turret ring is a kill.
Leclerc doesn’t have cheeks but is more survivable in front hull and side shots where Abrams always loses the horizontal drive if not dead.
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examples in ground forces… bare in mind its a combined arms game so the likes of pantsir can be combated with ground strike.
or shall we go back to when the 279 was 8.3?
or when the mk3 chieftain was a monster at 8.3?
or how now american heavies7 6.7 has virtually no counter after all the 7.7 mbts moved to 8.0
you keep saying it exists and claiming it but havent mentioned any of it.
im the first one ot admit when im wrong, or have been convinced but it just aint there.
do yourself a favour and go look up the bug reports for the leclerc and see how its armour is actually performing.
they certainly do not have armour on par with the abrams at all.
That’s very unlikely when you consider the value of Rubles, even if the Russian community were twice as big it still wouldn’t bring as much money as those who buy with USD and EUR in USA and Europe.
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So I should ignore all in game data and believe what other people say? How about you provide a data to prove me wrong, just like I do? You don’t even have Leclerc and know much about it by the responses you give, how are you so sure that it’s so bad? I’ve even made a mistake by saying it has better turret traverse which you taked right in without question or fixing my mistake. Because you just repeat what other people say instead of actually comparing the two tanks and making a conclusion.
because i sat and watched this forums explode not even long ago with massive amounts of bug reports on the leclercs armour.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uNATBmoQ1yDj
theres also old forum posts about them. the armour thats shown in game even the xray barely is worth commenting on. take the m829 standard M1a1 APFSDS round and it goes clean through it.
im speaking from gridning over 200k into the leclerc then doing more research to see if its worth continueing or not, im speaking from having 5 nations ground at 11.0 and upwards so i see them regularly, well as regularly as theyre used. and they do not survive a damn thing, unless you get an unlucky volumetric shot.
im not just saying this to argue or for the fun of it mate, you will statistically bounce more with the front of the abrams due to the hull angle, thickness, and extra composite on the hull, over the leclerc, excluding stupid tests against for example the DM53 the 2a7 fires as it goes through literally every tank.
Bruhh, if you’re using that as basis for Leclercs armor, then how are you defending Abrams having armor? Literally 25mm bushmaster can kill the entire crew from turret ring…
that same thing can be said for any tank. m829 is a pretty sub par round at 11.7 which is what the leclercs are.
again the turret ring is a genuine weakness on the abrams that is supposed to be addressed but hasnt yet.
the leclerc has no composites in its front hull armour, it can pass clean right through the tank, the abrams has composite in the front of the hull as well.
Yeah man whatever, we turned this whole topic into Abrams vs Leclerc, I won’t be discussing with you anymore. Please go do actual research on tanks before debate with people for hours and only your only take is “… is bad” because I heard from other people…
Baryatinsky
Berezkin
Ustyantsev
Zarubezhnoye Voyennoye Obozreniye
Why does this report reference people like Petrov and Bashirov instead of proper sources?
the turret armor is usefull at almost every single map, even if you lack any kind of cover…
it doesnt… the ufp it is a literal automatic ricochet, exept a really close ranges, btw unlike the abrams you can die due to fuel explosions, and the fuel is literally everywhere on the leclerc so even side shots can detonate it.
abrams have way more protection even the lower plate that you constantly complain offers way more protection that the lower plate of the leclerc dude
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lol okay didnt even read a thing ive said mate. read what ive actually said, the abrams has composite inthe hull for a start which saves it from more shots than not.
youve a cheek to comment on any tank considering the only 11.3 youve got is the M1A1 aim with a worse KD in it than i have in any of my abrams.
heck think ive a better KD in my challanger 2s whcih are horrific to use.
so yeah i know more about what im talking about, and for you to come to the conclusion, because what others say, is just like putting your fingers in your ears saying lalala.
so yeah. over n out
this is the sources used in the bug report that got accepted, i can link the full one if you want ? Community Bug Reporting System
Only in flat terrain, both tanks being leveled. But you can just hit that massive turret ring or the lower plate, fuel tanks generate spall like I said.
I just explained on upper replies. And don’t be lazy and actually explain where this protection is exactly? All rounds can easily pen LFP of Abrams and armor plates behind fuel tanks generate enough spall to take at least 1-2 crews and turret ring, it even disables the engine depending on what angle you hit.
the LFP of the abrams has more armour than the leclercs. it literally has composites. xD
Bruhhh -_- Literally all rounds can pen right through that composite. It’s 400mm even stock APFSDS rounds have more pen than that.
The developers have reviewed the suggestion but do not consider the sources to be sufficient to lead to any changes. As such, it will be rejected due to a lack of reliable sources.
It’s unclear what else you were expecting with ‘sources’ like that.