Would you rather take a liner that helps in one extremely niche scenario that can be avoided by map awareness or a decent reverse gear
To add on i did some testing with some others a month back and i dont remember how these images relate but the conclusion was the chinese MBTs have better gun depression than the soviets by a surprisingly significant degree
I’m sorry, but this trend I’m seeing of people saying things like 80BVM / 90M having poor surviveability needs to be nipped in the bud. It’s just objectively false.
The Relikt coverage gives them the smallest frontal penetrable surface area of basically anything other than a Leopard. You’re basically just aiming for a tiny LFP that can be easily covered, a drivers port where the optics have a propensity to magically swallow darts, or a slim strip either side of the breach.
Compare that to Ariete, Merkava, Chally, Abrams, Leclerc, Type 10 etc who all have lolpen hulls and significant areas of lolpen on the turret face.
Relikt handholds these tanks in our mostly CQB map pool, even if you get the flank on them, those sidebags of ERA have a frustrating habit of eating darts, and that fuel tank on the right side eats darts aimed at the ammo rack when coming round corners.
Yes they have bad depression, yes they are on the weaker end of pen, and yes their reloads are not ideal. But I’m exhausted of seeing this claim they aren’t survivable. The Relikt boi’s are the most trolly, jank ridden things in game. I’ve had far more ‘wtf just happened to my dart?’ moments firing at these things than even 2A7 / 122.
They do have bad survivability its an objective fact
3 crew
Massive instakill weakspots
Bad reverse if your gun gets shot
Bad gun handling
No??? What are you smoking
Ironically the soviets have the worst tanks for CQC well except for the challenger
You’re pretty much going “yes they suck in literally every important metric BUT LOOK THEY HAVE SLIGHTLY BETTER SIDE ARMOUR”
if you’re genuinely aiming at Relikt plates at an obscene angle still thats on you i don’t even know how you’d end up hitting the side relikt honestly because the only situation that should happen is if the guy is sidescraping but in that case if you fuck up just reverse away
Except for the BVM, all the others are kinda mid. Not the worst, but still ok. Usable with the great supporting tanks/jets
You can literally look for yourself in armour viewer. Those frontal Relikt plates grant immunity even to DM53. Only Leopard 2A7 / 122’s have a smaller surface area that is frontally penetrable.
Chally, Merkava, Ariete, Leclerc, Abrams, Type 10/90, all have a significantly greater area.
Compared to what? 2A7? What about everything else?
2A7/122 and 90M / BVM, maybe also the Chinese tanks are the only top tier tanks you actually need to aim for weakspots on. Everything else can just be centre-mass lolpenned. That’s a significant advantage in CQB where every millisecond matters, and the ability to snapshot can win 1v1’s.
My whole post was focusing on survive-ability. Not once did I deny they have other weaknesses, and my comment was more focusing on their frontal protection. Idk how you came away from it with only the side armour stuff, but you’re welcome to strawman me if you wish.
“maybe also the Chinese tanks are the only top tier tanks you actually need to aim for weakspots on.”
nah, the chinese ones are mostly lolpen too. huge lfp
Aye, it’s why I maybe them lol.
The smart guys who hide the LFP do require a bit of aiming to dispatch. So often I see people fire into their ERA and pikachu facing that it didn’t go through lol.
My biggest issue with Soviet tree is the reverse speeds on their MBTs, unless the Oplot gets added, expect the same thing out of every Soviet MBT.
gijin please oplot i beg
At top tier, Strv 122s/Leo 2s are easily the best. Second is IMO the BVM. Its an absolute powerhouse, its fast, small, punchy, and has amazing armor coverage. Only thing besides the Leos beating the BVM are the Japanese MBTs. Those things however have a high skill floor and and an extremely high skill ceiling.
Bro its nearly identical what are you smoking
And please enlighten the class which MBTs have better gun handling, reload and reverse speed because it sure as hell isnt mr fucked up his shot 7.1s reload and 4kph reverse T-90
Mobility is a part of survivability if you cant reverse away from danger to allies or into cover you have worse survivability
Oh cry me a river we’ve had to deal with razervon enough on the forum that excuse doesn’t work anymore
Oh 100%. They range from good to amazing in just about every single way. The only thing I can fault them for is the bad case of ‘NATO-Hump’ over the rear, but if you’re front is towards enemy as it should be that’s no deal breaker.
I ain’t claiming 90M / BVM are the best, they clearly aren’t, I’m just making the point that they are definitely amongst the conversation of most survivable things at top tier.
Id still put the abrams 2nd over the BVM, again like i usually say in these types of posts is that russian tanks are only good against bad players who dont know map positioning or how to aim the skill ceiling on the abrams is far higher but so is the skill floor lower which is why you end up with such terrible abrams players despite the fact that the tank is incredibly good
There’s definitely a subjective debate to be had there. I don’t think it’s without merit that so many opted to use Abrams in the competitive scene, even when BVM was an option. Post RoF buff, Abrams in good hands is a monster.
Like you rightly say, Abrams has a higher skill ceiling, but I do think equally, BVM has a higher skill floor. Which for the average player in randoms probably means more.
ERA / Spall liners just offer so much of that all important jank factor lmao. I’m not a good player, bang average at best, but even watching skilled players, when they aim good and proper on an Abrams, it usually has its intended effect, but so often when they aim perfectly on a Leo / BVM / 90M, it’s like a dice roll on whether ‘RNG’ feels like screwing them or not lol.
I was just giving my opinion, not attacking any of yours. I probably replied to the wrong message
Oh no attack felt mate, don’t worry lol.
Absolutely a fair take regardless who you aimed it at.
Yesterday I played a few matches with Russia and remembered how survivable they are.
In one match, my T-90M was shot SIX times.
3 shots were stopped by the armor, including a side shot eaten by the Relikt ERA.
The other 3 shots didn’t even hurt a single crewman- only destroyed the engine after harmlessly punching through the autoloader and whole crew compartment.
And these people claim that “it suffers” and start raging and insulting you if you dare suggest these tanks aren’t as terrible as they make them out to be.
Then you have the Abrams, where 50% of the penetrations are a one-hit kill and 50% of the penetrations will anihilate the driver, engine, transmission, vertical traverse mechanism, hydraulic pump, horizontal traverse mechanism and gun breech (only to be finished off in a second shot you can do nothing to avoid)… and they claim that tank is OP and, again, begin insulting you if you dare even suggest it it may not be as OP as they make it out to be just because it has better depression and reverse speed.
The way I see it, American and Russian MBTs are more or less equivalent in an asymmetrical way.
American tanks are worse in general but have higher potential, while Russian tanks are better in general but have lower potential.
-Abrams: high floor (bad), but high ceiling (good).
In short: harder to do well with for the average player, but easier to do extraordinarily well with for the better player.
-Russia: low floor (good), but low ceiling (bad).
In short: more easy to do well with for the average player, but harder to do extraordinarily well with for the better player.
Basically, Abrams can do great if you spend the entire match hidding behind a hill and only popping 0.17 pixels of your turret to shoot for 0.2 seconds. Dare to play a bit more aggressively and you are dead; on the other hand, Russian tanks can do great if you just kinda rush and brawl, but their weaknesses are more limiting for a more agile player who wants to do even better.
Ah yes the infamous one Russian tanks are miserable
I hope you don’t blame Strv122 and 2A7 for their miserable fate.
Aka the tank most countries have?
I’m talking about the ones with appliqué armour, so one in Germany. One in Italy. Three in Sweden.
3/10 countries.
