[RoadMap] Following the Roadmap: Construction of Objects and Trenches for some Vehicles

Our thoughts and plan

When we first spoke about this feature in the initial Roadmap announcement, we mentioned that it would be an opportunity for armored vehicles that have limited amounts of ammunition for their main guns in order to try and mitigate this shortcoming.

However, during internal discussions we found it difficult to choose the criteria for vehicles that have limited ammunition. On one hand, not all vehicles with limited amounts of ammunition are able to quickly use it all up (for example, the Sturmmörser and Sturer Emil), and on the other hand, not all vehicles with a large amount of ammunition are suitable for advancing to capture points just to reload (for example, SPAAGs with small caliber weapons). Alongside this, some vehicles have several types of weapons of different calibers with different amounts of ammunition, and it’s not always possible to say what the main weapon is, how quickly its ammunition is consumed in battle, and how suitable the remaining weapons are for active and productive play.

Therefore, we’ve decided to expand and formalize the list of vehicles that can receive (based on voting results) this functionality. Vehicles include all Tank Destroyers, ATGM carriers (the type mentioned in the stat card, not any vehicle with ATGMs), all SPAA and SAMs, as well as ground vehicles with external rockets and bombs (such as the Calliope, M26 T99, RBT-5, Cromwell V (RP-3), Matilda Hedgehog, Magach Hydra). Tank Destroyers, ATGM carriers, SPAA and SAMs are often not suitable for storming strategic points and playing at the front of battle, but at the same time they provide important support to teammates from the rear lines.

We’ve decided not to exclude any individual vehicles from this mechanic, including those with a large ammunition capacity, since for them the new mechanics will not provide any significant advantage, but can diversify the experience with them to some extent. Additionally, Tank Destroyers don’t have the option to use artillery strikes, meaning these new mechanics could become their specialty. External rockets like those mentioned above are very limited in their use and therefore can also have additional ammunition to expand the tactical capabilities of the vehicles with them without affecting balance much.

What we propose

We’re now proposing new functionality for a huge number of ground-based vehicles for the vehicle types mentioned above: the construction of interactive objects and landscape elements. Different objects will have different restrictions on the reuse and the number of uses per respawn, which is needed for balance reasons as well as to prevent large number of objects in battle.

Constructing these objects

The construction of each object will take some time. When constructing, the player must remain in place next to the object, similar to replenishing ammunition at a capture point. While doing this, the movement of your vehicle is not stopped; you’ll be able to drive away if there’s a threat nearby, and then return to continue the construction. Below are the approximate values of timers and number of uses that may be changed during implementation, testing or evaluation of this functionality. The proposed objects will have a fully-fledged damage model, meaning they can be destroyed by a hit or ram, and the changed landscape would behave in the same way as landscape dug up with a bulldozer or that has been bombed.

Destroying objects

Objects will only be able to be destroyed by the player who constructed them and the enemy team. This is to avoid toxic behavior from teammates, who will not be able to destroy your objects, this rule applies to all game modes. However, any altered terrain will not be affected by these changes.

What can be constructed

In total, there are currently two types of objects for construction and one possibility of changing the landscape:

  1. Ammunition Boxes. This object will consist of one or two types of boxes, depending on the number of weapon groups of your vehicle: separate box for guns and separate box for missiles/rockets. For vehicles with external rockets or bombs (such as the Calliope), there’ll only be one box just for the additional weapon. Ammunition for the main gun will have to be replenished at a capture point as normal. Each box will only contain as many shells, rounds and belts as you had at the time of spawning into the battle, allowing you to replenish the ammunition load up to this amount. Only the player who built the box can replenish ammunition from it. After running out of shells in the box, it will disappear. If enough damage is done to the box, the ammunition will ignite. The fire will not only destroy the box and the ability to replenish ammunition from it, but will also show its position with its visual effect and can cause damage to open-top vehicles if they fall within the damage radius. Ammunition boxes can be built again as many times as needed — including after being destroyed by the enemy — but will only contain the remaining unused shells. At the beginning of the battle, you effectively receive double the ammunition capacity and can manage it as you see fit by changing positions and replenishing from the ammunition box that is always at hand. The construction time is 15 seconds, and the cooldown to construct it again is 60 seconds.
  2. Camouflage Net. This is a visual wall at ~6 m wide and ~ 3 m high that can help hide vehicles from the enemy. In Arcade Battles, the camouflage net will also help hide the player’s marker, but not forcefully and unconditionally. Instead, it’ll follow the game’s principles of marker visibility and concealment, simulating a solid wall of dense bushes. The color of the net is automatically selected depending on the location where the battle takes place; yellow for desert ones, white for winter ones and basic green for the rest. No more than four uses per spawn, the construction time is 10 seconds and the timer until reuse is 10 seconds.
  3. Trenches and Mounds. Trenches and mounds in this case are not going to be a “preset” object that you can place on the map. This would not be very convenient due to restrictions on the angle of inclination and curvature of the surface, as well as restrictions on proximity and the inability to cross other stationary objects (buildings, stones, other trenches). Instead, we’re proposing to expand the surface modification capabilities. Currently, digging is only available when using a bulldozer blade if the vehicle has one. We propose to supplement the mechanics of changing the landscape by adding to vehicles with this new functionality (as previously mentioned, Tank Destroyers, ATGM carriers, SPAAs, SAMs and tanks with external rocketry) the ability to change the nearby landscape with a “brush” controlled by the mouse cursor or controller stick. To do this, the player will have to leave control of their vehicle, switching the crew to “excavation work” mode, select the digging / pouring mode, and then move the brush cursor with the action button held down. At the cursor position, the landscape will change in a given way, if nothing on the surface hinders this. This way, it’ll be possible, among other things, to complete the construction of other player’s trenches and mounds, built using both this mechanic and using bulldozer blades. The time spent preparing a fully-fledged position using this mechanic will be noticeably greater than when using a bulldozer blade. The number of uses per spawn is not limited, but each change to the surface costs “stamina”, which is restored over time.

Below is a video of how changing the landscape might look like. Please note that this is just an automatic demonstration that changes the landscape much faster than we’ve suggested.

Plans for Arcade Battles

The mechanics of replenishing ammunition from boxes would logically and technically conflict with the mechanics of reloading missiles in Ground Arcade Battles, which is currently activated after the missiles are completely used up. In addition to this, the arcade reload mechanic currently blocks the replenishment of missiles at capture points. In view of these factors, if we add the construction of ammunition boxes, we plan to remove the mechanics of arcade reloading, since replenishing ammo from boxes is — in our view — a more understandable and universal game mechanic.

Thoughts?

New functionality always has the possibility of changing game tactics and add more variety. Having said this, we understand that it’ll introduce even more objects to the map and may complicate the detection, identification and destruction of the enemy, and digging trenches and creating mounds with a large number of vehicles may complicate navigation and movement on the map. Therefore, we’d like to hear your opinion! Share it in the comments and vote for or against adding these mechanics we propose to the game. Your feedback here is important to us, and we want to make sure that any changes to the game are aimed at improving the gameplay and meeting the needs of players.



50 Likes

YES!

New game mechanics / gamemodes to shake things up is always welcome.

This sounds like an ambitious idea, one which will probably have some issues that will take time and effort to figure out, but I want you to know I’m with you all the way.

Some people who value “realism” over all else will probably be sceptical of this, but I for one welcome it. This is a game after all. If the brush method enriches the gameplay in a convenient and fair way, then I think it’s fully justified.

Edit:

This mechanic would be most useful on large maps like Red Desert and “Huge Tunisia”, but sadly these maps are rarely seen in map rotation. I want you to know there is demand for this type of map, and that many of us would like to see more of them. Also, please do not continue to downscale and flatten maps.

Edit 2:

To expand on this idea, I’d like to see buildable bridges and the introduction of more water obstacles (like rivers and flood) on current and future maps. It would make amphibious vehicles more relevant, and with this mechanic regular vehicles would still be able to cross, just less conveniently.

These bridges would have different weight limitations depending on the build time. Appearance and resistance to damage would also scale with how long you spend erecting said bridge.

15 Likes

I really appreciate the idea of replenish ammunition outside capture zone, however implementing “private” ammo box for individual players might bring negative impact to the co-operative nature of the game. Since there have already been many players who prefer camping at the borderline/base rather than playing the objective, adding ammo box for these vehicle might give a boost to the phenomenon, which is quite worrisome.

Allowing light tanks and SPAA to construct public ammunition depot for the team might be a better idea – many IFV type light tanks as well as truck style SPAA have enough interior space to carry additional ammunition boxes, adding ammo depot construction ability will make those vehicles better fit their role of supporting the team. This would encourage teamwork among players, and at the same time enhance the diversity of vehicles by extending functionality of supporting vehicles & adding importance to them.

It’s a 1V119 commanding vehicle but you may get the idea.

Public ammo depot will help teammate replenish ammo without rushing the capture zone, whilst private ammo box would only make camping easier (imagine a Wiesel 1A2, but have ammo doubled and camping at the edge of maps twice as long) other than contributing to the teamwork.

33 Likes

Please make sure that these are not able to be used to trap friendly players by toxic teammates

45 Likes

I like the sound of most of this.

Could we get some clarification on the camouflage net? Is it literally just a 6x3 wall? How does that work; does it need to be next to an object to attach onto or is it placed anywhere? How realistic is just placing a wall of camouflage with no supports.

5 Likes

To be honest, that sounds more of a bait than actual camoflouge…

3 Likes

No way squad chased me all the way to another game. Well more like arma but, still.

Now we need this for vehicles in game already, many with older nets are still forced to have green camo nets on desert and winter maps, vehicles such as the Cr2, which I have made a suggestion for:

Spoiler

Challenger 2 camouflage netting

8 Likes

A general critique - or let’s say doubt - is the trends in map design and reduction of map size, which I find stands in quite a contrast to the proposed changes, especially entrenchment and camouflage:

We see more and more small maps, something many of us really are very concerned about as it reduces the tactical opportunities and possibilities drastically, especially for the vehicles that would get the proposed mechanics.

So why on one hand reduce the size and landscape of many battlefields to prevent especially those vehicles to play their role as the would IRL, but on the other hand give them mechanics that would work directly into the other direction?!?

TL,DR: I don’t need to be entrenched and camouflaged with lots of ammo, if I’m forced to fight in a phone booth with fully predictable pathways…

68 Likes

Personally I would prefer ammo reloading either in spawn or near spawn in addition to cap points instead of deployable ammo stations.
(Still voted yes)

As for the 2 other construction options, I voted no.
Gaijin keeps making maps smaller and smaller and giving the option for players to add further hindrance doesn’t seem fun. I can imagine trolls using this to grief their team.

Additionally you guys already added entrenching/dozer blades and nobody uses them.
They take too long, maps aren’t suited to it, it provides little benefit.

Edit:
Instead of this type of development I’d rather see destruction of buildings added like Battlefield has had forever.
Or replacing the nuke with the option to drop a crawling artillery barrage(that wouldn’t end the game)
Or multiple airfields for Air
Or buddy lasing, scout drones instead of attack drones, etc etc

The proposed changes seem more of a gimmick than anything that will improve and compliment gameplay

25 Likes

I’d also rather favor “resupply at spawn”, but the possibility to resupply as proposed is something I can live with and even see merit in.

(Note: dedicated SPAAG/SAM and TD player here - never was much of a brawler…)

8 Likes

Yes to the ammunition boxes, NO to the camo nets and trenches.

Why are we trying to fix something that isn’t an issue in the game? It makes no sense for players to be able to modify the terrain without a dozer blade. If you do want to have the landscape change, you should implement engineering vehicles.

17 Likes

I like these ideas a good deal, I would however suggest that you not even bother with any of this stuff in AB at all. For the most part it would be convoluting an already much busier system than the other 2 modes. And with markers, no need for camouflage(can’t see anything with fighters anyway), reloading of the vehicles negates “ammo boxes” . . all in all, these are pretty good additions and I can see some tactical variety(any/all variety is a good thing in my book) and additional strategies, but I do not really see this as useful for Arcade . . . that’s just me tho.

Yes!

This + some more large and open maps i would love to see

5 Likes

Not every new addition is “trying to fix something that isn’t an issue”; sometimes, new additions are just new ways to bring variety or dynamism.

No one would play a non-combat specific kind of vehicle just to do that hahah.

4 Likes

I support your idea of using IFVs to make ammo depots

4 Likes

This completely removes novelty of the core mechanic in update game breaking… I mean ground breaking. Why have a dozer blade on a tank when the same thing can be done by any other vehicle classed as an SPG, SPAA or SAM.

For example the Centurion Mk5 AVRE used to be the only tank that could repair allies, now every tank can. Then it got a dozer blade, now every tank in the above classes will get one. Why would you play it over than haha big gun, the FV4005 is better for that anyways

I feel like these mechanics would be fine, if they were on dedicated engineering vehicles. Not to mention the maps are way too small for trenches and on half of them you can’t even build because its a bad urban map.


Oh and only the person who built them can use ammo boxes? That’s a terrible idea, just have spawn areas with a resupply zone.

14 Likes

I really like the sound of all of this! Enriching gameplay with further variety and dynamism is always welcome.

That being said, I fully subscribe this:

We are not asking maps to be the size of Texas… but at least they should be large enough so that we can’t shoot at each other’s spawns from our own spawns.

Currently they are as small as 900x900m at times. Not even a single km between the opposing team spawns!

Now I insist- we are NOT asking for 50x50km maps either, that would be boring, stalling and bring nothing to the table; but I think setting the standard (FOR TOP TIER ONLY) to 3x3-4x4 km would be a nice step.

The best maps for Top Tier currently are on the 2x2km range and that should be the minimum standard at these BRs, to have some breathing room to drive, maneuver, flank and/or position before the match turns into a chaotic knifefight mess.

8 Likes

Now SPAA/SAM will “live” on spawn surrounded by camo nets and ammo boxes.

11 Likes

I hadn’t thought of that! Now I like this EVEN MORE!

Screw C*S, specially when they spawncamp everything, including SPAAs (which is how it goes 99% of the times), we need more and better ways to counter them and this may help a little, so yay!

6 Likes