Plane SP is calculated in the background by AIR BR.
OFC you get lower SP when you spawn a plane 1 BR below top tier.
Didn’t you mention something about someone using a lower BR helicopter?
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I heard that being the case for sp gain not price. Just jumped in into 11.3 grb:
Shouldnt mig27k be cheaper? It has 11.0 air br while su25t sits at 11.3.
Yes I did as part of explanation for battlehawk picture.
I honestly don’t care anymore man, you are moving the goalposts every single damn time, so I give up. I have better stuff to do than to argue with someone who’s not interested in an arguement but just wants to be right.
But that is because that rule basically only applies to top tier, as it’s not forcing a 14.7 down, but a 11.0 up because of better than 11.0 performance.
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I dont tho. Its still at sp costs for fox3 vs heli, fox1 vs heli laser and about game giving you tools to deal with threat instead of kill denying.
If you mean mig27k and su25t, thats first stuff with different air rb I found for example only.
Never tried to just want to be right. I didnt discard that guys argument when he posted images with sp prices. All I did was making a claim and then supporting it with images.
I think it uses grb brs like even in your image su30sm is cheaper than my su34 because your t90m costs 100 sp while my t80bvm costs 120 sp.
Also I think I found part where I was wrong actually. Because I use 6 lmur 6 vikhr loadout. And for some reason vikhrs make it more expensive despite being lower tier weapon. I thought it only takes price of most expensive weapon like on plane. My apologies to you and @MommyDommyEnjyr.
If this is is coming to ground and naval battles, currently where J’ing out doesn’t really do anything but just blow yourself up, could there be some kind of mechanic then where instead of just blowing up, your hatch opens up or something to represent ‘bailing out’ like how you can save your pilot in air battles? Perhaps you could have a slight reduction in repair cost if you ‘save your crew’ or something, if you bail out of your tank, to make tank battles feel more realistic? Something like this would feel more fun and immersive instead of just tanking hit after hit in a doomed vehicle until your crew dies, compared to air battles where if your plane becomes unflyable, you can just eject.
It can be confusing to get SP costs worked out properly but the way the system works is, the aircraft class (so fighter, attacker or bomber) effects SP by about 1.11x of the base SP cost IF the aircraft is at the same BR.
So what I mean by this is, if we have a 12.7 aircraft but we get up tiered to 13.7 (thanks to the 1.0BR difference) this adds I believe a 0.93x modifier to that 500SP which now drops it to 465SP (no missiles or bombs)
Pylon munitions also have a factor added to them which if I recal for TV/IR the modifier is 1.8x so 80% over base which means a single KH38MT on lets say the Su-30M2 now becomes 900SP but if hypothetically the BR range was 14.0 or higher in GRB then that 900SP now becomes 810SP because of the 0.93x modifier for BRs.
That is why helicopters are cheaper if its compared to top tier aircraft, because most top tier aircraft are pulling up the lineup thus actually forcing a 0.93x modifier to Heli costs, but what isnt mentioned is how gaijin actually handles “top tier BRs” its not known by many but if you are lets say max BR 13.0 (higher GRB BR you can have) the game actually treats you as being 14.0 if it wants to create purely “uptiered lobbies” for anyone in the 13.0 BR bracket and stop them being downtiered all the time.
But like in the case of the Su-30MKK vs the Z10ME cost, believe it or not the Su-30MKK is 12.3 BR for GRB while the Z10ME is 13.0 so the Su-30MKK gets that reduced spawn cost modifier while the heli doesnt (thus skewing the cost parity) but if both Jet and Heli are same BR like the Rafale and Ra’am vs the AH64 and AH60 then due to the nature of the loadout cost and aircraft class, it out costs the heli SP costs.
Ironically this imo just shows how flawed helicopters actually are with the BR, they benefit from a reduced cost because by design gaijin can basically let players +1BR there lineup due to GRB BRs for aircraft (some being 13.7)
This is why I dont like the J out mechanic, they havent touched SP costs for Helis to be on parity with Jets, Jet A/A imo needs to be reduced and heli re-arming needs a total rework, this system on paper is great but in reality all this will do for the veteran players is just force them to think 2 steps ahead, if they see a jet unload a slurry of missiles 6 miles out, I bet they will launch what they can and just J out before the 3km window hits to save them dying and then spawning a backup to kill them as they fly past
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cool
Thx for explaining the calculations behind SP costs. Not sure i could follow but maybe ill reread that when im less tired.
But considering helis isnt it still somewhat flawed considering even in a mi28nm the average k/s is 1.79 kills per spawn and 2.44 kills per death. Which rly isnt a lot considering it is still 600 something SP to spawn? Compare that to any top tier tank (which ofc also increases in spawncost and to get 2 or 3 kills as a second or third spawn might get increasingly harder once ur spawntrapped) but still a first spawn mbt for 100 to 150 sp is way more efficient considering k/d to sp cost than any heli. Even the second spawn cost for a mbt (200something sp) is more worth it considering the average reward than a heli?
Im not arguing that helis should get cheaper to spawn (they are annoying enough for lots of nations that cant do anything from the ground to keep them in check), its probably just a lot more worth spawning a jet for 100 or 200 sp more than a heli? at least for the average player? Or maybe also for very good players since helis are completely countered by certain jets while nothing completely counters a well flown jet?
Now surely to accurately judge that we would need statistics we dont have access to, like comparing heli ground kills per spawn and death to jet ground kills per spawn and death, which maybe is something that the snail already does, to calculate the SP costs of helis with certain ordinance compared to jets?
Yep. I feel like a big problem in this case is that jets and lots of (sl)/(t)op tier spaa both use arh missiles which get auto defeated at an altitude where a heli should operate at. For the plane thats ok, it would be dumb af if any plane just needs to launch one of its gazillions of fox 3s in the general direction of the heli that automatically dies. The jet has numerous other ways to engage the heli. You can still get lucky with a fox3 if hes moving too much towards or from the missile relatively, but if that doesnt work every jet has multiple of: TV ordinance, brimbones, bombs or a gun, hell you can even kamehameha him in a last ditch effort. And for it being a 600 sp asset, being launched at with one of 18 brimstones that some jets can carry and basically having 0 counterplay for that but automatically dying is also somewhat dumb if you ask me. There should be stong tools vs everything but nothing should be without any counterplay.
The SPAA has no other tool than its fox 3 missiles. Theres nothing you can do to increase the missiles hit probability, you cant launch them from above and lot of times you cant even be sure whether hes in multipath height, notching or hovering or not. You have no idea most of the times of the missiles hit probability so lots of spaa players just waste all their ordinance on a heli that will never get hit by a fox 3 in a desparate attempt of downing him. If the heli had to chaff the missile either through maws (which wastes all chaff on 1 or 2 missiles) or at least manually chaff it would be more skill based and hed need to keep an eye on how much chaff hes got left. So, if multipathing were to be disabled for helis facing fox 3s from spaa (and maybe notching only works with chaffing and then defeating iog - which seems to be the way its implemented atm) it might work better in the heli vs spaa interaction. But considering fox 3s youd need to implement it as a double standard thats handling fox 3s from spaa differently than fox 3s fired by planes, in some cases the exact same missiles, which would also be a bit stupid, so idk…
As it is at the moment theres 3 or 4 killswitch mechanics in play that each defeat basically any fox 3 missile coming from most spaas. multipatch, notching, chaffing through maws and the cursed ldircm (for the spaas that are doomed to use ir missiles), hell you can have no clue whats going on and most likely any absolutely clueless helipilot is unknowingly doing at least one of these, turning him untargeteable for 50% of top tier spaas.
why is naval getting this???
if “exploits” are the reason air simulatior cant have this then SURELY the mode thats just mostly automated accounts grinding free sl and rp also shouldnt have it??
For God’s sake…
EACH and EVERY single day I play, there’s griefers and trolls that leave RIGHT before my missile, shell, bomb or torpedo hits them.
I am SO glad that this mechanic is now coming.
I wish I could see the face of these clowns after the update, when they J out and still credit the kill to someone.
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DUDE DEU BU BU BUT THE EXPLOITS!!!(naval has like 5-9 bots every match)
Gaijin: hmm looks convincing enough. We will add reward for crashed aircraft in sim. But to bots only so bot tanks could get kills from bot attackers crashing during attack runs.
Please consider adding a respawn timer to SPAA(or other vehicles) when you J out.
Have had players who aren’t going to be able to intercept munitions J out and then instantly respawn so they can try killing you while having spawn protection.
I don’t really see why you should be able to J out and respawn the same vehicle at all really, but if people are going to do it their should be some sort of drawback to it
Because people were abusing it in naval ec. Yes, they need to find a way to not enable botting accounts to farm abusing this. Thats beyond question.
And yes, the same should count for sim, where its apparently been needed like 4 years ago, judging what others are saying on the forum (i cant tell since i never really played air sim)
I see your point. But i can also understand people j-ing out in the absolutely uncapable to deal with anything type 03 when 20 spice bombs or anti radiation missiles are coming for it. Youre not intercepting 20 spice bombs. youre lucky if all your rockets hit 2. and youre not shutting off the radar and start moving in time to beat the iog of a mach 4 missile, given you even realize that thats whats coming. expecially not if youve got stock mobility. And you certainly aint intercepting a anti rad missile with it. Before you even realize whats happening that thing is inside the 6 km no engagement zone. and to spade that thing, i can tell you. youd need like 4 people playing it so only half of them lose their sanity in the process of getting the engine mod. YK, an engine at all. Something thats essential for a truck, or any vehicle to go uphill. Oh well, im actually not betting on the type 03 to be able to go uphill even with an engine.
Good side is: No ones wasting a coupon to respawn a type 03 after just getting rid of one and being able to play an actually useful vehicle finally xD
i love it when people use examples that cant be pull off in the current game
and its ALWAYS from people who never touched air sim
“yeah guys you see you can just fly towards the enemy airfield without getting spotted from over 20 kilometers away by people with AESA radars and the 3 itos that will shoot you down once youre within the 10km killzone and just park near the airfield very easily(ignore the fact most maps are flat and covered with trees) and have a script spawn a jet and bail near you.”
“btw i never played air sim to know how this is possible i just saw a post on reddit”
like try pulling this off in modern day air sim i dare you
how do you mean? i mean its obviously the worst example and more of a joke…you shouldnt be able to j out of anything to deny kills obviously. But some vehicles are just implemented so badly (or are just working that way irl…considering how buggy the tan sam kai was when i last played it i call badly implemented) that you almost feel like wanting to j out 2 sec after spawning it :-D But, what are you going to do against an ah64e in a type 03? you cant kill him, you cant -even if every single one of your missiles hit, which would almost be a miracle- intercept all of the jagms that he can bring even in one run. Basically all you can do is fire all missiles and j. you wont hit him, you cant stop him from killing your team and you, save yourself some precious lifetime and j.
And thats even while, ngl i like the type 03. It looks awesome, is unique, but unfortunately its rather useless in the current meta. It would be way better if you had one type 03 launcher combined with a tan sam. but well…youd still be nothing compared to just one pantsir sm-sv considering attacking helis or intercepting ammunition.
I said that i never played air sim. wdym?
J out to deny kills needs to be prevented. in naval ec and in air sim and in all other gamemodes as well, judging from what i read.
But they also need to find a way to not make botting accounts abuse this. in both modes. Whats wrong about that exactly?
Maybe i worded it a bit weird and youre misunderstanding what i wanted to say?
I said
that as it sounds like that air sim and sim in general needed that mechanic for a long time now?
least unsportsmanlike tungusga player