IS-2 was in service in Hungary before revolution, both standard and “1944” variants. I think this is the only real option for researchable heavy tank. 44M TAS is unlikely (not completed), any captured stuff too (as a regular especially).
1 Like
I’ve seen a few things saying they were in service, but I’ve seen a few others saying they weren’t delivered for various reasons. I’d be inclined to believe they were in fact in service, but I’ve yet to see a photo. Do you have a link to one by chance?
https://56online.militaria.hu/cms/isz2-nehezharckocsi
There were also some parade photos, I’ll send once find.
1 Like
If this is true (which I doubt as I believe they tested the vehicle and it didn’t just destroy itself), it doesn’t matter anyway. Like @PacketlossRedux said, such reliability issues are never modelled into WT. I mean just look at everyone’s favourite XP-50… it literally exploded during its first flight because of the supercharger failing. Yet it works perfectly fine in WT, so there should be no reason why the Toldi Pancelvadasz can’t be added with a suspension that won’t break. It would be a nice glass-cannon style TD for low tier Italy, which they lack.
2 Likes
The fact I reference vehicles added to WT to justify adding more similar vehicles to WT says it all… that these are fine additions.
I know that their guns are bad, but if the M2A2, Csaba, L3, and those rank I SPAAGs can get added, then there is no reason for the Toldi I and Toldi II to not be added. The Csaba is now correctly at 1.0, and the Toldi I and Toldi II would also go to 1.0 obviously. Anyway, they can be event vehicles or something.
As addressed, this doesn’t even matter.
It literally has a different engine. And it isn’t the same engine, it was more reliable, iirc it was more powerful, it probably didn’t overheat as horribly. They were derived from the same Gnome-Rhone engine, but they were altered, so not the same. Extra armour, improved fuel tanks, different guns and a different cockpit are all noteworthy enough changes to say it isn’t just a copy-paste.
And? The guy clearly likes to sketch… doesn’t mean the same backstory applies for everything that he sketches, that’s quite a ridiculous assumption.
Yes, that’s why I mentioned the significantly improved and faster WM-16B Budapest II. The second variant has a top speed of 300 km/h, the Swordfish has a top speed of 226 km/h. That’s 74 km/h faster… not 40-50.
The Hs 123 has a top speed of 310 km/h (only 10 km/h faster than the WM-16B, and slower than the WM-21).
WM-16B Budapest II [1.0]
WM-21 Solyom [1.0-1.3]
Also, at first you didn’t even think the WM-21 was good enough.
1 Like
In my humble opinion, I’d rather have literally any other heavy tank. The IS-2 is only good in full downtiers.
2 Likes
The Piaggio P.Xi is a Gnome Rhone 14. The WM-14, funny enough, is also a Gnome Rhone 14. Even better, the P.Xi is a GR 14Kfs, and the WM-14 is… a GR 14Kfs! Hungarian ones had 20-25 more horsepower. Twenty - Twenty Five. And I thought reliability was so irrelevant / unmodeled?
The added fuel tank makes it more vulnerable, and in combination with the armor plate outweighs said horsepower advantage.
As for the WMs… Cool. They go faster than a Swordfish. They also only have 12 kilo bombs. You go play an HE-51C and tell me how useful the bombs are. The fact that I would be cool with seeing it doesn’t mean I think it’s good enough. It’s just a cool looking plane and unlike something like a Toldi it actually stands some small chance of killing an enemy.
Well, the only two options are either the 44M Tas, or the IS-2.
1 Like
++1
1 Like
A better engine, better armour protecting the pilot, different fuel tanks (thus different damage model and fuel capacities), different (better) guns, and a different cockpit (interesting for immersion and Sim players) are all things that improve (or at least alter) in-game performance of the vehicle, setting it apart from a standard Re.2000. It probably has more differences than between some variants of the same aircraft (e.g. than between a serie 2, serie 3 and serie 7 aircraft of the same type).
Not true. It wasn’t related to and shared nothing with the Breda SAFAT. It was a Hungarian design, and a very unique and complicated one too. The only similarity it had to the 12.7 mm Breda SAFAT was that it was chambered for the same ammunition, since Hungary used that ammo too. In terms of performance, the 12.7 mm Gebauer 1940M was superior to the 12.7 mm Breda SAFAT, having much higher rate of fire and better muzzle velocity (1000+ rpm vs 700 rpm, 800 m/s vs 760 m/s, same ammunition).
Unfortunately, you’re probably right. But they could just give it a 1000 rpm flat RoF.
Still a different and better gun. What’s the problem with that?
Considering the Heja I is a better Re.2000, which is a decent 2.3 aircraft, and the WM-21 is equal to or better than its competition, so would make for a fine 1.0-1.3 aircraft, I still don’t see how you can say they aren’t fit for the game.
2 Likes
None of those tanks are WW1 era… all of the suggestions are historically accurate real tanks, none of them are from “project papers”… not sure where you got the impression from that these are fake blueprint tanks; they are all perfectly real vehicles, or else I wouldn’t have suggested them. And BTW, none of them are “pointless”, there isn’t really such a thing in WT.
Exactly. I don’t think anyone can argue that Italy shouldn’t get a heavy tank that F2P players can use.
1 Like
I’ve stated i got no clue about those tanks so you can understand my doubts lol.
1 Like
In their jet form, yes.
Really? I see them get played quite a bit.
Which is why you voted “no” to Italy needing a heavy…
Almost like the whole original post is saying this…
Not really a fictional name; it just means “Tiger” in Hungarian, which is how they would’ve referred to it.
No thanks, that would be awful. A single captured Soviet tank that wasn’t used as a researchable Italian tank is a terrible idea.
That’s an even worse candidate…
Considering the Hungarian army used IS-2s postwar, there is no need for 1956 captured IS-2s, nor for any Romanian captured IS-2.
Or a much better, more interesting and unique domestic candidate, the 44M Tas that the original post recommends.
3 Likes
I’m just not sure why you jumped straight to assuming they are fake/projects.
Since it is somewhat of an old comment i assume i saw somebody else’s comment mention it. Mind you, the whole point that i tried to make was this one:
Regardless of anything else.
1 Like
Both were derived and slightly altered from the Gnome Rhone 14. Also, the Hungarian engine is called the WM K-14, and was produced in several different versions such as WM K-14A and WM K-14B, and even these seemed to have been made with different amounts of power, for example the WM K-14B is stated to have anywhere between 960-ish to 1085 hp.
IIRC, the WM K-14 was derived from the GR 14Kfrs.
As I said, they were made in several variants with varying horsepower, so the most powerful versions probably had much more.
I should have clarified; the reliability would not be relevant in-game, but how quickly it overheats would be.
I think the fuel tanks were better sealed/self-sealing, so maybe they would be better, but at least they are differences between a standard Re.2000.
The better performance would mean they would be slightly better for air combat.
I admit the payload options seem weak, but the 120 kg bomb load is only for the earlier variants of the WM-16 and WM-21, the later versions had a 300 kg bomb load, which would make them perfectly fine.
With the later variants of these with their adequate performance and 300 kg bomb loads, I think they are perfectly fine and comparable to the other biplane light bombers currently in-game.
The Toldi I and II (with the 20 mm Solothurn) would be perfectly able to kill enemies considering they have the same gun as the Csaba, and a gun as powerful or more powerful than the L3/33, M2A2, rank I SPAA trucks, etc.
And the later Toldis had a perfectly capable 40 mm cannon.
2 Likes
You do realize it’s possible to think Italy needs a heavy while voting down the idea of a tank that is very well known to not have been built, right? Hungary quite literally could not manage, at ANY point during the war, to produce a plate thicker than 30mm. There’s a reason the front of the Turan and Zrinyi are stacked 25mm plates. The fact that there are no photos, no documents, no personal accounts, NOTHING, of a project of huge importance and potential national prestige makes this comically clear. Or are you going with the “oh well Germany just reversed the course it held for the entire length of the war to provide Hungary with armor plates so a prototype could be completed and never made any record of the fact but trust me bro” route?
I think even you know that’s not true when there have literally been reserve tier vehicles getting removed for being too weak (e.g. PO-2 and rank I French tanks). The Solothurn is nowhere near the worst armament on a ground vehicle when there are vehicles like the British Light AA with just rifle-calibre MGs which can only penetrate 10 mm of armour. Or French rank I ground vehicles with 37 mm guns that have the same penetration as the Solothurn, but without the rapid fire and without any explosive filler. Or Japanese rank I tanks with 21 mm of penetration. I mean the L3/33 CC has basically the same gun as the Csaba, but without a turret or an MG, and worse mobility and you don’t seem to mind. Most rank I SPAA vehicles are a lot worse as well, and the M2A2 only has a single .50 cal. So you’re very obviously wrong, the Csaba and the Solothurn are nowhere near the worst in any way.
2 Likes
I seriously want to ask if you are a troll or something? Looking at your username, I wouldn’t actually be surprised. Do you actually care about what is historically true, or do you just want to spread blatant misinformation that can be disproved with a 2 minute Google search?
You must actually be stupid. Then what are those 35 mm, 50 mm, 55 mm, 60 mm and 75 mm thick armour plates on the Turan and Zrinyi series? And no, these are not stacked. Check on the WT Wiki if you are so delusional you don’t believe it. I honestly have no clue where you keep getting these ridiculous claims from. It is well known that the Hungarian tank industry’s limits were at 75 mm thick armour plates (not 30 mm plates), and that they bought 100 mm and 120 mm+ plates from Germany instead.
You clearly haven’t actually read anything about the 44M Tas if you wrote a sentence like that. There are photos of the 1:10 scale mockup. The photos of the actual tank were lost during the war due to bombing raids destroying the factory and much of the documentation for the tank. There are official surviving documents and blueprints for the tank (primary sources), I mean some of it is literally ON THIS FORUM! Not to mention there is a surviving component from the tank (the gun sight). There are plenty of personal accounts (a reconstruction of the tank was made in the 1980s from nothing but personal accounts). So again, you are completely lying to say that there is no proof of this tank.
You don’t even make sense anymore.
- The poll asks “should Italy get a researchable heavy tank?”
- You vote “No.”
- Then you say that you think Italy should get a researchable heavy tank…
Oh, and btw, you’re wrong again, it is very well known that the 44M Tas had prototypes being made. Not sure why you like to lie so much when your lies can easily be checked.
3 Likes
5.3 for the 80mm one is a bit too low, it is a better T-34-85 in all aspects.