They are still in possession of similar technologies/weapon systems (all weapons) but again im not trying to justify through similar technologies was just explain this as you mentioned that they have no technology similarities which they actually do.
Will however see how it will play out, Gaijin has made some exceptions and they could very well do it again especially with the number of unique/modified vehicles the Tree possess.
You didn’t cite a single source nor did you actually describe any of the vehicles in the post. You just posted a tree with vehicles in it, improperly labeled a good amount of them, and just put pictures under the names. This is not nearly as comprehensive as the original.
Edit: You also didn’t add a poll at the top to gauge people’s interest which is a pretty major part of the suggestion format.
I think OP must be insane for suggestion for the Songun-Ho to be only 9.3BR
The turret machine gun area gives us a little glimse into how insanely thick that turret is
The Songun-Ho also has hull which appears to be angled probably even more than 75 degrees and gets ERA on top of that. Its armour is definitly way better than T-72M1 whilst at the same time since its a tank from 2010’s, it would have access to Modern Chinese 125mm APFSDS that they buy from them. Then those 2 Bulsae-3 ATGM’s feature 152mm tandem warheads rated 1200mm of chemical penetration.
Could be the same reaction like back in 2022 when somebody suggested South Korea to be fused with Japan, it however backfired badly and resulted in the removal of the suggestion. People’s opinion can change but Gaijin could however still receive some backlash like the Taiwan flag issues which reached their newspaper.
Korea however could be worse but will see when it’s officially confirmed.
Hello, person who originally made that suggestion here. The thread was taken down after they had to have two mods permanently on it because of erm… “inappropriate comments towards user’s life” being a constant, in which I asked them to take it down since the point was pretty clear.
Originally, I did not particularly care if SK was added as a subtree to Japan, and I say this as someone who is Korean. However, the OP @보지사냥꾼 makes a very good point in stating that any subtree would kneecap the further development of Korean vehicles in this game, and would otherwise dilute the Japanese tree. If you look at my activity history, I play Japan vehicles the most. I’m only interested in seeing Japanese vehicles/prototypes fill the gaps in the tree, not in Gaijin putting in any half measures to be lazy. I’m rather sick of copypastes being used to fill gaps, even if they come under the guise of a subtree addition.
While I am sure others have done so already to an extent, I’d like to more substantially refute the claims made by some like @ChieftainWarrior , in a more civil manner. Claims that he is racist are rather ridiculous
NK and SK only have geographical relations
Obviously the OC admits that they have historical relations. However these relations go on for thousands of years; NK and SK are both descendants of a single nation that existed on the penninsula for several centuries: Joseon. Just because attempts at reunification have not materialized thus far, this should not negate the historical connections. NK and SK have infinitely more in common with each other than any neighboring countries. I don’t know why the fact that the countries not have reunified yet should be seen as countering their cultural relations. No one here is saying that East and West Germans are a completely different peoples after being split for several decades.
He also goes on to list UK-South Africa, Sweden-Finland, and Italy-Hungary. He insists that there is a formula where subtrees “are given to nations with at least 1 of these traits”. I fail to see how NK and SK fail to satisfy the close, geographical and historical relations metric he uses for Sweden-Finland and UK-South Africa. I would argue that the relations of NK and SK are exponentially stronger than those two relations, let alone Italy-Hungary. For example, the Swedish language is an Indo-European language whereas Finnish is Uralic.
Just because nations are not allies does not mean they should be precluded from a tree. This is a facetious argument. Why are Czech vehicles in the Italy tree, even thogh Italy was a member of the Axis which supported the invasion of Czechoslovakia? That argument makes no sense.
There is already precedent. The Chinese tree exists as the sum of two constituents: PRC and ROC. Whether he likes it or not, this tree is already is the game, so it should not be surprising if there is a United Korea tree. And, PRC and ROC succeed in the formula he set forth; they share both historical and geographical ties.
The US and USSR do not need any subtrees. This should not be up for debate. These are nations that have( or had) immense military-industrial complexes. The different variants and protoypes made by each nation means thousands of possibilities for each.
My problem is that OC claims to be a purist and is following a formula for which nation gets which subtree, yet refuses to follow that formula when it checks out for NK and SK
Thank you @Noveos_Republic for responding in a bit more of a civil manner.
I still think you’re wrong though, and you might have misinterpreted what I was saying.
Yes, my full quote was “NK and SK only have geographical relations, as well as (obviously) historical, but we all know both of them are not pushing significantly for reunification (actively threatening to go to war with each other) and neither have any shared technology.”
I was referring mostly to the modern day. North and South Korea once being united doesn’t mean much in game-terms, as they weren’t united at the time the tank was even invented.
I am not negating the fact that they have a long, deep history. Of course they do. But it is irrelevant in terms of technology in game.
No, and I am not saying North Koreans and South Koreans are a completely different peoples either. I just don’t think they fit well together for a tank (or plane) tech tree.
I don’t know if Gaijin has a formula but it’s how I perceive it. It seems to be the most logical set of 3 traits, at least to me.
Ah, but you’re conflating cultural similarities with technological ones. Yes, South and North Korea are culturally a lot more similar than, say, white British people and black South Africans. But, again, this is irrelevant for the game.
Sweden and Finland have had military cooperation and co-developments, and are part of the same geographical and political area, and are close allies. This makes sense.
Britain ruled over South Africa, but, in the late 70s-90s from which South African vehicles in game are from, Britain and South Africa cooperated in their development. For example, South Africa’s Olifants are from exported Centurions, and the Rooikat prototypes used the 17 pounder. Etc etc.
North and South Korea have not cooperated on anything militarily. They have no joint technology, nothing. Their vehicles are radically different from each other. They have genuinely zero similarities. This is my main point of contention.
I also only said this: “ either a) close technological relations or b) close international/geographical relations.”
I specified international (by which I also mean political)/geographical relations, a mix of both. They also don’t have this, as they’re de jure still at war.
Which Czech vehicles? The М53/59 is in the Soviet tree, the S-199 is in Israel, the Moderna is in the Soviet tree (granted it’s Slovakian, but they were united during the period you’re talking about), etc. I could be missing something but I was under the impression there aren’t any Czech vehicles in the Italian tree?
Yes. I agree. I don’t like this but it is how it is. I can’t argue with that.
They do share historical ties, and geographical, but they’re quite similar to Korea in that regard. They’re hostile to one another and don’t share technology. Like I said, if trees were expanded (to have more than 5 lines), I would prefer if someone like the US got Taiwan. But that likely won’t happen for a while (and ideally also requires lots of minor trees to also be expanded so it’s not so unfair).
To some extent yes but see my above answer. I’d like massive trees but that’s unlikely. Perhaps a new mechanic could be added for sub-trees outside of main trees, but that require main tree progression (i.e. to research Taiwanese vehicles in their own separate UI section, you need US rank IV or something). But that’s not part of this discussion really.
To my knowledge, I am following my formula pretty well.
I know you created the suggestion, however yes the suggestion went downhill as many players as you mentioned where against it (still remember the voting) but didn’t know you requested that.
i’m all for adding a south korean tree if you can get enough vehicles to actually make it a full tree (by the looks of it you have).
However it is done, as a standalone tree or a sub tree of japan, I don’t care, it’s a video game.
I just want the vehicles added with a large enough pool of supporting vehicles to make playing them worth a damn. i don’t want Israel 2.0 with nothing but MBT’s and no support vehicles.
I agree with your assessment. Korea being a subtree of other nations will only limit what Korean vehicles will be added to WT. There is still a bunch of Japanese vehicles that WT refuses to add to Japan that may just be prototypes but we just all collectively somehow ignore the completely fictional Ho-Ri Series.
South Korean military attache in Ankara, shakes hands with two Turkish Korean War veterans
How and Why?
When the Korean War started, Turkey sent the 15,000 strong Turkish Brigade to South Korea with a cable to the UN: “Turkey is ready to meet his responsibilities.” Under the joint UN Command, it fought valiantly most infamously in the Battle of Wawon on November 28, 1950 when the Turkish Brigade who neither understood or spoke English or Korean, and combined with false intelligence - were made to do a long march to the Korean countryside where they met with a retreating column of ROK troops and fired upon them. This tragic mistake was soon rectified however as they met with the advancing North Korean and Chinese forces that were chasing the ROK troops and repelled the attack at the cost of around 400 Turkish casualties and an estimate of 3000 casualties on the Communists’ side. The Turks withdrew but were soon encircled but with a timely air strike, the battered Turkish Brigade was able to come back to Allied lines. Controversy surrounded the Turkish Brigade’s competency during the war but as one historian puts it - Turkish Brigade was the only UN force present between Wawon and Kunu-ri, the Chinese inability to capture Kunu-ri before the US 2nd Infantry Division made their retreat (which the Turks were not informed) meant that they had successfully covered the withdrawal of Allied troops.
Post-war, the sacrifices of the Turkish Brigade was not forgotten and the sentiment of both Koreans and Turks regard each other as blood brothers. The participation of Turkish Troops also made the door open for Turkey to join NATO. With it’s entry to NATO, South Korean defense industry firms have been in close cooperation with the Turkish defense industry with the purchase of KAI KT-1 Woongbi Trainer Aircraft and K9 Thunder Artillery Systems. This has directly or indirectly led to the development of the TAI Hürkuş (which looks a lot like the KT-1 Woongbi) and the T-155 Firtina (Based on the K9 Thunder). Joint ventures were also undertaken with the Altay MBT (based on the K2 Black Panther). Korea also planned to co-develop the TAI TF Kaan, which is slated to be Turkey’s replacement for its entire F-16 fleet but this was rejected as the then-Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu announced that the TF-X program will be a completely independent domestic platform, not in partnership with Korea. In 2013, MIKTA was formed where both Turkey and South Korea have made their ties closer together with the other Middle Power Economies.
In-Game
Turkey sits in a weird spot where they operate NATO and Western Military Vehicles but are politically getting closer to Russia and its sphere. This makes Turkey quite the hermit in its region as it cannot join other countries to form a comprehensive tech tree with. However in a United Korea Tech Tree, it might just find its home and make the United Korea Tech Tree a lot more appealing than just another C&P tree. This would however require a 6th Branch in the TT or it could just be interspersed within the TT but anyways these are the vehicles:
FNSS developed the ACV-15 based on the AIFV to meet the Turkish Land Forces Command’s (TLFC’s) operational requirement. The first production vehicles were delivered in 1992. The basic AIFV has a one-person power-operated turret armed with a 25mm cannon and 7.62mm co-axial machine gun. FNSS Defense Systems’ latest development is the Armored Combat Vehicle – New Generation which has an additional roadwheel each side. This can undertake a wider range of battlefield missions as it has greater internal volume and load-carrying capability.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: GIAT/Nexter M811 25mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun
Mobility
Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V-53T Diesel Engine, 300 Horsepower
Tulpar is a Turkish heavy infantry fighting vehicle designed by the Sakarya-based automotive manufacturer Otokar. Tulpar was designed for the dual role of providing fire support to friendly main battle tank and safely transporting troops in a high-threat environment. Resistance against IEDs, small mines and high ballistic protection for its crew were among the high priority design criteria. Tulpar is also fully networkable with the Altay MBT and other units.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: Mk44 Bushmaster II 30mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
Kaplan MT or Harimau is a light tank jointly developed by Turkish manufacturer FNSS and Indonesian manufacturer Pindad. The development program name for the tank is Modern Medium Weight Tank . The tank itself is called Kaplan MT by Turkey and Harimau by Indonesia, both meaning “tiger”.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: Cockerill CV HP 105mm L/51 High Pressure Rifled Cannon
Extensive modernisation of Turkish M60A1 with the cooperation of IMI and 2nd Main Maintenance Center Command. M60A1 received IMI MG253 120mm L/44 cannon, a new armor package and more powerful engine. Currently in service, upgraded to M60TM standard.
M60TM Main Battle Tank is further modernization of M60T with the experiences gained from Operation Euphrates Shield (Fırat Kalkanı Harekatı). Under the modernisation, M60T’s received numerous ASELSAN made sub-systems including; LWR, Close Range Surveillance System, SARP Remote Controlled Weapon Station and TEPES Telescopic Periscope System. Some units received PULAT APS while some not, both versions are in service and used in operations.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: IMI MG253 120mm L/55 Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary:
• Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun
• SARP Remotely Controlled Weapon Station Mounted M2HB 12.7mm Heavy Machine-Gun
Mobility
Engine: MTU MT 881 KA-501 Diesel Engine, 1000 Horsepower
Transmission: RENK 304S, 4 Forward, 4 Reverse
Suspension: Torsion Bar
Top Speed: 55 km/h
Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 16.7 hp/t (Likely Less)
M60TM Main Battle Tank is further modernization of M60T with the experiences gained from Operation Euphrates Shield (Fırat Kalkanı Harekatı). Under the modernisation, M60T’s received numerous ASELSAN made sub-systems including; LWR, Close Range Surveillance System, SARP Remote Controlled Weapon Station and TEPES Telescopic Periscope System. Some units received PULAT APS while some not, both versions are in service and used in operations.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: IMI MG253 120mm L/55 Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary:
• Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun
• SARP Remotely Controlled Weapon Station Mounted M2HB 12.7mm Heavy Machine-Gun
Mobility
Engine: MTU MT 881 KA-501 Diesel Engine, 1000 Horsepower
Transmission: RENK 304S, 4 Forward, 4 Reverse
Suspension: Torsion Bar
Top Speed: 55 km/h
Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 16.7 hp/t (Likely Less)
First serial production model of Altay Main Battle Tank. Two units of T1 delivered to Turkish Armed Forces and being subjected to test. It is estimated two T1 will be extensively tested 2 years before further orders.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: MKE 120mm L/55 Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary:
• Co-Axial PMT-76T 7.62mm Machine Gun
• SARP Remotely Controlled Weapon Station Mounted M2 QCB 12.7mm Heavy Machine-Gun
Altay AHT is the Urb-Op version of Altay and one of the last prototypes ever developed by Otokar. It received additional armor, smoke launchers, passive protection system and a dozer blade. Although it lacks AKKOR APS it said to have passive protection system and it also appears to be even more heavily armored than BMC’s T1s.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: MKE 120mm L/55 Smoothbore Cannon
Secondary:
• Co-Axial FN MAG 7.62mm Machine Gun
• KESKIN Remotely Controlled Weapon Station Mounted M2HB 12.7mm Machine Gun
Mobility
Engine: MTU MT883 KA-501 Diesel Engine, 1500 Horsepower
Transmission: RENK HSWL 295TM, 10-Speed, 5 Forward, 3 Reverse
KORKUT is a Turkish self-propelled anti-air gun with twin-35mm auto cannon. KORKUT is combination of FNSS’ ACV-AD platform and ASELSAN’s turret system. It has ability to fire 35mm ATOM Airburst Rounds. Currently in service.
Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 20.2 hp/t (Likely a Little Less)
Protection
Armor: STANAG 4569 Level IV
Smoke Grenades: 8x
Active/Passive Protection System: None
Accessories
Night Sight
Thermal Sight
Laser Range Finder
Dual-Axis Stabilization
Passive Target Searching
Automatic Target Tracking
Fire On-the-Move Capability
Automatic Target Acquisition
BURÇ Mobile Air Defense System
Spoiler
Designed with Roketsan’s expertise, Burç is specifically tailored to protect mobile and fixed units, as well as strategic installations on battlefields and rear areas. Its main armament consists of eight Sungur anti-aircraft defense missiles housed in two quadruple pods, complemented by a 20mm caliber three-barrel cannon as an auxiliary weapon.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: 20mm Three-Barrel Rotary Cannon
Secondary:
• None
Missiles:
• FIM-92E Stinger Man-Portable Air-Defense System ˀ
• SUNGUR Short-Range Air Defence Missile System
T-155 Fırtına II is modernised version of Fırtına I. It received fully electrical turret system, new fire control system and ASELSAN made RCWS. Currently in service.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: MKE 155mm L/52 Cannon
Secondary: SARP Remotely Controlled Weapon Station Mounted M2HB 12.7mm Heavy Machine-Gun
FNSS’ Kaplan-10 platform with ROKETSAN TMLS (Tactical Missile Launching System). TMLS, unlike ARCT, is a modular system and offers different armament options and combinations. TMLS has ability to carry and fire Cirit, OMTAS, UMTAS and L-UMTAS missiles in different configuration. System could be configured to carry 8x Cirit Missile, 4x Cirit & 2x OMTAS/L-UMTAS/UMTAS or 4 OMTAS/L-UMTAS/UMTAS. This vehicle also has same problem with ARCT platforms, fire-and-forget missiles. Solution is similar to above, Gaijin simply could lock fire-and-forget missile and allow system to be configured with only Cirit and L-UMTAS missiles. Currently in service.
Brief Specification
Armament
Main: ROKETSAN TMLS, In Different Configurations; CİRİT 70mm Laser-Guided Missile, OMTAS Medium Range ATGM, L-UMTAS Laser Guided Long Range ATGM, UMTAS Long Range ATGM
As you all can se Turkey has quite a lot of vehicles to offer. I basically cherry picked and copied lLiberté’sTurkish Ground Forces Proposal so please go ahead and check it out. I only picked the ones who were either interesting or had something to do with Korea so there were many more vehicles I left undiscussed here. Now, people might say that this is way too far fetched of an idea but honestly - I think this the perfect place for Turkey. Not only would it make a United Korea Tech Tree one of the most diverse ones, but it can make it competitive enough to deter those who insist that Korea should be subtrees of Japan and China. This would also allow an otherwise empty Turkish Air Force (if they become an independent tech tree that is) to actually have planes from the United Korea Tech Tree, since the Turkish Air Force doesnt exactly have the variety in it. Turkey’s UCAV’s can also be quite an interesting addition to the United Korea Tech Tree and fill something unique in a mostly C&P Air Tree of the United Korea Proposal.
I think a Turkish subtree should go to Israel instead, they have much better need for it
even if Gaijin were to finally add unique Israeli vehicles (not Merkava/Centurion/Magach), they would still be behind a lot of trees
Arguable but possible. For me though, Israel and Turkey rarely cooperated with each other and are often times at each other’s throats. The alliance of periphery isnt all that stable as well and I would argue is not that much better than MIKTA.
Also aside from modernizing Turkey’s fleet of F4’s and F5’s and missile contracts, their defense industries have rarely crossed paths with one another. South Korean defense companies though have had multiple technology transfer deals with Turkish defense companies although these are more recent events.
And I dont think Turkish players would even like the thought of having their tech tree as a subtree of Israel and it would be too ironic if Turkey was added as a subtree to Israel while having United Korea when in the first place United Korea was done to not upset Koreans over their tech tree being a subtree in Japan.
Anyways, I think India is a potential subtree for Israel. They are after all the largest importer of Israeli military products. They have an exhaustive list of military cooperation and codevelopment. This is a very nuanced alliance though, but it definitely exists.