Renault AMR-ZB 13.2, the French HMG tank of china

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​caid’s suggestion #3

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I would like to suggest a new Low-rank French tank for China that is unique to China, the Renault AMR-ZB 13.2

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In 1932, the French Army was developing a new type of tank on their own, the Auto-mitrailleuse de Reconnaissance. or AMR. this development led to the AMR 33 which received a production relatively interesting for the French army but the vehicles were mostly obsolete. the development of an improved version took root as early as 1933 and Renault Proposed an upgraded version of the AMR-33 named the Renault ZB for the successor of the tank. at the same time, they offered a completely new version, the Renault ZT because of the AMR-35.

but it wasn’t the end of the Renault ZB. As the French army had no interest in the ZB, the tank was offered to the international market and it was been noticed by the Chairman of the Yunnan local government, Long Yun, who appreciated the tank and put an order of 4 of them armed with a 13.2mm. those tanks seem to have been received the same year.

The Yunnan tank was not incorporated into the Central Army during WW2. As the tank was relatively weakly armed, and not very reliable, the central government didn’t claim those tanks who served the Local Yunnan government until 1945. Yunnan was still under the banner of the Kuomintang from 1937 and as such their AMR-ZB was carrying the Republic of China markage. the was used to defend Yunnan and saw no action.

in 1945, they were finally claimed by the central government after the end of WW2. For those who are not aware, the end of WW2 meant the end of the Truce of 1937 between the Central government, the provincial government, and the communists in China, which meant the civil war started over. only the Provincial government had taken sides with either the communists or the central government. the AMR-ZB 13 was incorporated into the Kuomintang 1st army under the air-defense command. after that, all AMR-ZB (47mm armed or 13.2mm) was lost to the Communists and disappeared from the record.


armament

there was a total of 10 machine-gun tanks based on the Renault ZB in China, but what we know for sure, is the Yunnan Government had ordered 4 with 13.2mm, and the second batch was ordered by the Nanjing National government later the same year may have an LMG instant of the 13.2mm which would explain the confusion in the photo. the LMG is unfit for the game as the main tank armament but the 13.2mm could work. the gun used was the 13.2mm Hotchkiss M1929.

the 13.2mm is the same as the P…7.T AA in-game but the penetration is currently incorrect. the source is clear, the penetration should be superior as follows

the data was sourced and checked, the source will be presented below. a bug report was also made. with this penetration, the tank could meet some enemy that could be destroyed and the high mobility and small size allow a good chance of sneaking and flanking the enemy.

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Mobility.

the Renault ZB was different than the ZT version used in France. The ZT had 4 road-wheel and 1 bogie while the ZB as used in China had 5 road wheels and 2 bogies. they were using the same engine, the Renault 432 22 CV 4-cylinder engine which could provide 85 to 88hp. the mass seem to be a bit different as it retained most of the AMR-33 chassis. it gives a weight of a bit over 5 tons but keeps the bad reliability of the AMR-33. the top road speed was tested just a bit under 64 km/h on the road but the cruising speed was 35 km/h.

Protection

the armor is not his best feature. with only 13mm of armor pretty much all around and 9mm on the horizontal part, this vehicle will not be much protected. but the 13mm should at least protect it against LMG from the coax guns. his small size and high mobility should make up for his lack of protection. also the crew of 2 men is not likely to allow a good survivability either.

Place in the game?

this tank wasn’t 100% Chinese authentic. it was imported from France but France didn’t use them, they did test it but with an LMG and not the 13.2mm gun as the AMR wasn’t allowed to have Anti-tank capacity until the late 30s. so we could definitively give it to China. the tank is at least unique for them and not so much a copy-paste.

it could also make a decent reserve tank as it is fast enough and have some decent firepower. Naturally, the BR cannot be more than 1.0 which means good for being a reserve.

Source

Armament

the tank itself (including the AMR 35)

the chinese services

2 Likes

They should first fix the T26 model

other issue, other topics.

this is not related to this suggestion and one does not forbid the other and the order of what and when it should come do not matter to me

2 Likes

While i am not a fan of C&P, this is kind of ok, because it isnt some dealbreaker and Low Rank.

this tank was not from China but there is no other country that used it. which does not make it a copy-paste at all. this was not even proposed to the French army at all.

1 Like

I would love to see this, add it as a researchable, like how the old French reserves are in the French Tree (Before the Reserves)

1 Like

Oh, ok.

+1 good candidate for a Reserve, I’d put it as a Light Tank before the SdKfz 222 and bump that to the second row.

US has the M2A2 so there’s no reason why a vehicle only armed with a 13.2mm should not be in the game. The history also makes it very suitable.

1 Like

Instead of the M8 as a reserve.

2 Likes

When this was suggested on the old forums, I supported it. I still do! +1

2 Likes

+1 for 1.0

That would work as it would start the Chinese Light Tank line, I chose to move the 222 because it’s a 1.3. Either would be fine.

Photos and descriptions retained by the ROC government at that time, I find it in Wechat.
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the descriptions of cannon retained by the ROC government at that time, I find it in Wechat. 37mm gun and 13.2mm machine gun half half,it means purchased half is equip with cannon,half equip with french machine gun, by the way, China modified it in WW2,remove the cannon or 13.2mm machine gun change to 7.92mm MH5 machine gun.
QQ图片20240602170257

2 Likes

good find,

still, there is a mistake with the number. the tank certainly didn’t weigh 3 ton and the caliber of the HMG wasn’t 1.32mm but 13.2mm

this allows us to believe the 37mm may also be a mistake but there is also an interview with an ex-driver of that tank who stated it was a 37mm only he did no know what model it was.

both sources may be mistaken and related or the tank could have the 37mm. both cases are possible. i am keeping an eye open for more reliable and detailed sources. but so far, these is the best sources we have.

This is a mistake made by a typist when translating back then, and there are no errors in Chinese, 公分=cm,1.32公分=1.32cm=13.2mm,3.7公分=3.7cm=37mm, typist’s false when he translate to English.