Professional racers use GT as well.
iRacing simulates the rules & regulations more than the physics.
And GT simulates the physics which matters more to the rest of us seeking realism, as rules & regulations are subjective while physics aren’t.
… exploit?
No… that’s an intended feature because shooting the Cupola is a definite weakpoint…
2 Likes
How is this thread still unlocked? Do we take requests to make parts of tanks invincible because someone invoked “muh realism” without linking any data while very clearly malding?
5 Likes
the cupola is weak, sure… but why would it cause significant damage to the tank or the people inside of it?
Hint… it wouldnt. So if they want to make a mechanic where the cupola gets shot off, then sweet, other than that it is an Exploit because it should do Little to NO damage… both to the tank itself or the inhabitants inside the tank.
Just because you like to ignore this response, doesn’t mean the rest of us do as well.
2 Likes
The irony is palpable.
Regardless, a quick google search led me to this quote, from Roman Töppel’s “Kursk 1943: The Greatest Battle of the Second World War.”
“An after-action report from the 503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion, which was equipped with Tigers, later commented: 'What was striking was how frequently the commander’s cupola was penetrated by direct hits or badly damaged […]. The Russian instruction on how to combat Tigers spread suprisingly quickly and was followed by all enemy arms of service with great stubborness”
One of the principle weaknesses of the early Tiger models was the large size of the cupola, and this fault was identified by both the Germans and Russians pretty soon after the Tiger hit the field. By the Battle of Kursk, it was well known, and Soviet leaflets from that period instruct their solidiers to aim for the cupola (Among other identified weakpoints) with weapons incapable of dealing with the frontal armor (45mm or down).
Clearly, the Germans agreed with this assessment, as one of the more notable changes in the later model Tigers was the serious reduction of the size of the cupola, as clearly seen comparing the Tiger H1 and E in game. In fact, there was a general reduction in the size and shape of cupolas as war experience went on. Compare an M3 Stuart to an M3A1, or a Panther D to an F. The only exception were the Soviets, who went from no cupolas on their early tanks (And accordingly terrible situational awareness) to a larger cupola to improve that awful situation awareness.
Now, this didn’t kill the entire crew as depicted in game, obviously, but it often seriously affected the combat capability of that tank, if not rendering it combat incapable. The commander would often be seriously wounded or killed, and the tank would lose a good portion of it’s situational awareness, both from losing the crewmember responsible for that and also the majority of it’s sights. They’d be forced to rely on just the gunner and driver sights, and just ask some Jadgpanzer 38t crews how combat capable you are when you can barely see out of your tank.
As I’ve already intomated above, I’m fine with jacked damage being a stand-in for damage that would render a tank combat incapable. Imagine taking a hit to your cupola, and then losing your third person camera. That would be more realistic, but in no way more fun.
3 Likes
The damage also depends on the shell and the cupola itself.
If the APHE shell overpens, then only the commander dies, or even survives, if the shell itself, and the few shrapnels do not hit him.
Try shooting a Tiger H1 in the cupola with something like the soviet 100mm or 122mm guns. It just straight overpens
When it explodes, it not only sends shrapnel all under (and a bit to the side), but it also creates a shockwave inside a metal box with thick inner walls.
Even with ear protection, it would damage the crew’s ears, deafening them temporarely, or even permanently.
And this is just the best case.
A strong enough overpressure can also damage the body.
If it actually detonates, it will send pieces of the unfortunate (or rather, in this situation i’d call him the fortunate one for at least not suffering) commander’s body everywhere, while painting the whole tank with blood.
If the shockwave did not stun and/or deafen the crew, then the psychological shock of seeing small pieces of your commander everywhere certainly would.
Blood is also gonna make verything slippy.
And if it is not enough, there is still the shrapnel. Watch this video:
it is a so-so similar case.
Tank shells are usually bigger and more powerful than a hand grenade, and even in the video, shrapnel got through.
An average 57mm APHE will have less explosive inside, however, it would likely create larger shrapnels with more penetrative force, so they are more likely to go through the commander’s body, and still inficlt significant, if not lethal damage to the crew nearby.
Lastly, for WT, there is this mechanic, called overpressure.
Now, you can debate if it is a better mechanic, than hull breake (i’d vote that both of them are BS), but around 190g of TNT equivivalent will trigger an overpressure effect with APHE.
This means, that all crew in the same compartment will die, regardless if shrapnel did hit them or not.
A great example are the following tanks:
Fcm 2c (with the 75mm gun)
Strv m/42
Ho-I
All those 3 has a 75mm gun, and 200g+ of TNT, and they will always 1shot enything, if their shells pen.
Yes, even an FCM 2c with it’s 12 crew memebers will be destroyed. Just shoot the cupola on the turret, and even the rear MG turret crew will die.
That mechanic is a gameplay choice.
A similar thing happens in this video (tho shrapnel still hits the driver. There is just no 2c in the test drive, but i did this once to it with the Ho-I) :
Maybe not the strongest counter-argument you could have come up with.
6 Likes
How else am I supposed to take it? I take the time to do a brief amount of research, come back with a sourced historical quote that’s relevant to the thing you’re speculating about, relate it to another easily observable historical detail, the justify the current gameplay as a standin for these historical phenomena, and not only do you refuse to read it, you then go on to claim that it proves nothing.
Meanwhile, the basis of your argument seems to be that you think that the concept of cupola shots dealing any meaningful damage is an exploit. And that the damage from such a shot should be negligable. No references to historical accounts of cupola shots. No justification of why that would be a good thing gameplay wise. Hell, you aren’t even arguing that APHE is overperfoming and should be nerfed, even though that is the single thing making these shots more effective than they would be IRL.
If you want to prove anything, you need to A) Give some actual evidence of your own and B) Devote the tiny amount of time required to read the proof offered by those trying to counter yours.
6 Likes
i mean if you hit there with a heat shell the fragmentation will kill everyone, ive got lots of kills playing with low tier german HEAT to know this
yes. currently if you hit there with APHE or HE you kill most or, or all of the crew (and even Can do a lot of damage with all other rounds, including solid shot)
My entire point is this should not be a thing… shooting cupolas should do basically nothing and simply be a “hit” not a one shot kill or even doing significant damage
you do realize that in real life that was a valid strategy to shoot a cupolas and hatches right?
3 Likes
1, i gaurantee that that “strategy” resulted in a LOT of deflections and missed shots. 2. this is about a relatively realistic video game.
Show me a replay of a cupola shot that doesnt look ridiculous. I’ll wait.
You have been shown several times here that it does in fact do significant damage being shot in the cupola. Lol
1 Like
no, i have not.
Several people have replied with literal images of tanks knocked out by Cupola shots. Why aren’t you paying attention to your own post?
7 Likes
Because the truth hurts lmao
1 Like
Step 1: Put the burden of proof on someone else.
Step 2: Don’t clearly define the standard of proof you require to change your mind and/or set the standard to a level that’s impossible to meet with the resources available.
Step 3: Keep moving the goalpost so you get to feel superior to someone which was the goal all along because the thread is literally a reactionary post to their own skill issues.
3 Likes
It’s not my responsibility to speak for others. What I am stating is a fact that all of us have access to. Especially the man who made this post. He is choosing to ignore the evidence he has replied to. Me reposting someone else’s reply will not change that fact.
Just use your brain please. Cupola shots are an actual tank weak point. Many instances have been shared in this thread you choose to ignore. Just look up. This is his thread and his responsibility to take constructive criticism.
1 Like
This thread is like a flat earther or antivaxer trying to find “proof” online. Every argument that disproves his conspiracy is automatically discarded as “obvious bullshit” because it would hurt his fragile worldviews and attached ego. Have fun living in your own schizo world buddy.
2 Likes