Remove Real shatter | Recent Ammunition Changes to 30mm Ho-155 Cannons and Their Impact on the Ki-200

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Dear War Thunder community,

I’m writing this thread to address the recent changes in some ammunition types, especially those impacting the 30mm Ho-155 cannons which, since the latest update, have sadly become almost unusable. This matter urgently requires attention as it has significantly affected gameplay balance.

To elaborate further, in the latest protection analysis against a G91, the ammunition couldn’t even inflict damage to the engine. At many points, the shots couldn’t penetrate the plane’s defenses. This level of ineffectiveness is simply unacceptable, particularly considering the fact that the Ki-200 only comes equipped with 120 rounds.

I’m speaking from personal experience here. I’m quite familiar with the Ki-200, boasting a K/D ratio of 6.67 with over 2,000 takedowns. I am, therefore, well-positioned to evaluate the current performance of the aircraft. However, following the recent updates and changes in Battle Rating (BR), the Ki-200 is now at a severe disadvantage.

The Ki-200 is a very specific kind of beast. It carries just 6 minutes of fuel and 120 rounds of ammunition. The combination of limited ammunition, which now seems to deal little to no damage, and a relatively short fuel reserve puts this aircraft at an inherent disadvantage against most opponents.

The situation worsens when faced with certain adversaries. Aircraft like the MiG-19 and the Starfighter, for instance, can carry up to four times more payload and have superior speed capabilities. In this light, the current BR, coupled with the new changes to ammunition, results in a scenario that is grossly unfavorable to Ki-200 pilots.

My intention here is not to point fingers or blame anyone, but to raise awareness and hopefully spark a discussion about this matter. It’s crucial that we ensure a balanced gaming environment where skill is rewarded appropriately, and no plane is made obsolete due to updates or game mechanics changes.

Balancing a game with as many variables as War Thunder is an arduous task, one that the developers work tirelessly to achieve. However, in this instance, I believe it’s necessary to re-evaluate the changes to the 30mm Ho-155 cannons and their subsequent effect on the Ki-200.

It’s also worth considering a BR adjustment for the Ki-200 or the provision of a minor ammunition buff, to offset the effects of the recent update. I firmly believe that such changes will help re-establish balance.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post. I look forward to your thoughts on this issue.

Best regards,

Rimbooo

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Well written post with 3 remarks from my side:

  1. Real shatter affects all Cannons with HE shells (except MG 151s mine shells to a much lower degree), change to AP rounds result in less damage and very high ammo consumption. The effect of altering game play for planes with needed “quick kill” capabilities can be seen in all BRs.
  2. Almost all planes with small ammo loads are the most affected by this “change/nerf/feature” so even even if your Ki 200 experience is very useful to show these effects - imagine you had invested real money and bought the J2M5 premium with 42 rpg - i can’t remember when i saw last time this plane.
  3. Asking for a buff of a single cannon (or to be precise: shell) looks comprehensible, but is not considering the fact that all cannons are affected (so why an exception for your plane?) and according to a recent reply we were told that the devs are fine with the current damage output…

From my pov a buff of damage output as answer to a nerf of damage output is extremely ineffective, just remove the nerf and you have the same result with much lesser effort…

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Thank you for your Feedback. With these points in mind, I’d like to refine my previous proposal. Instead of requesting a buff for a specific weapon system or aircraft, it might be more effective to address the underlying problem: the reduction in damage output from the recent ‘real shatter’ changes. I agree with you that undoing this particular nerf would be a more effective and encompassing solution.

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Yeah its a nerf to cannons in general.

Type 99s got hit hard as well, they feel like im shooting nerf darts now, a shadow of the usual mini nukes those HEF shells were.

I dont think anyone was happy about it, and it should all just be reverted, not just the Ho-155 (which im also quite well versed in, having spaded most of the fair number of rank 4-5 japanese aircraft that use them)

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It has clearly affected the balance and gameplay in ways that not everyone agrees with. But the real question should be: WHAT CAN WE DO AGAINST IT?

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Realshatter shouldn’t be the excuse of nerf, it’s neither “real” after all.

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I mean this problem exists for months now, gaijin has responded with adding real shatter to HMGs with HE filler too.

The bug reports regarding HE nerf are countless, all players and gaijin are aware of this and the only feedback we see is “damage output if fine for devs”.

So addressing was in the past - gaijin is fine with this. It is up to the consumer to decide how he want to proceed. Either find a workaround, preferring MG 151 planes or just avoiding the most effected planes.

What ever you do - this mess just increases frustration and reduces the long term motivation to play the game in general. It might be not important for gaijin as they earn money with jets (“missile thunder”) with AAMs, but it just amplifies the feeling of being helpless…

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And are we really powerless? Is there no way to get in touch with the developers? Otherwise, we might have to start a petition. It’s unacceptable that they just ignore us.

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As a power user of 13.2 i just partially agree, the 13.2 cannon (as it fires HE) was at least 2 times nerfed last year. Tbh it was way too op (at least whilst using them as a gunner) allowing you to snipe and kill planes one-shot up to 3.7 km range (my record, worked only if you got chased). Within 2 months the “kill range” dropped to 2.8 and them to 2.3 km…

In addition the gunner aim became less stable and the combination of ballistic update and HE nerf allows now even highly fragile planes like XP-50s or P-61s to take 7 hits and a crit within 2km without getting killed…a joke if you consider that 9 months ago 2 hits guaranteed a kill.

Regarding AN/M2 - it strongly depends on the right belt choice of the user.

MG 151s with mine shells are still “ok” from my pov - after adjusting a very long time to the ballistic update, the only negative points for me are a slightly higher ammo consumption than before - and it became very hard to get long range kills > 1.0 - 1.2 km due to this insane bullet drop.

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I understand your point. However, what about the aircraft at BR 7.0 - 9.7?

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I mean real shatter is just another episode of the series “Unwanted changes nobody asked for”.

Your observation regarding ignoring is imho not entirely correct. If you had the chance to follow the forum for years, you might have noticed that gaijin is following the input from the forum very closely, they just focused on changes which supported their goals. Really effective improvements for players (i exclude the last 2 months) were either minor, unintended or just an accident.

Contact to devs? Imho the job of community managers, if we receive 2nd hand feedback like “damage output is fine for us” i see no added value.

Petition? If you include a reliable poll with control questions leading to a high confidence level (so as it can be seen as valid for the whole player base) this would make sense. So if enough people are assessing this as a problem it might help to rethink their pov.

Currently the whole topic has just the potential to drift into an endless/infinite loop like so many others.

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I just use Universal, works for everything.

and I was talking about 12.7mm AN/M2

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Despite i play props only, i watch enough replays and yt vids to have an opinion about this BR range.

But without own combat experienced in this BR range any feedback could be seen as “personal color analysis” by a blind man. Funny, but not really helpful.

I see the jet guys in charge to give you their feedback to this question.

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And i was talking about the 20mm AN/M2 and M3 :-)

I prefer the API-T - works fine for everything too…

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API-T is good, but I ain’t let those dingus get a read on my shots, only I should know where did those bullets go, and they should only know after the fact.