Then you will be quite dissapointed.
F4F ICE has the same amount of weight that F4E has.
Its was not, but ok?
It has less equipment & gross weight due to lack of fuel. But whatever makes no difference to me.
How do you think ICE gained ability to fire AIM-120 without adding necessary equipments?
ICE is basically F4E with modified F-18 radar that can fire Amraams and more enhanced Ir missiles, it also doesnt lack of fuel unlike previous models.
We are not talking about the ICE. I was specifically talking about the F4F. So was @Godvana
The F4F did not have the sparrow fire control silly goose, neither did it have the same fuel capacity.
How big is a sparrow fire control? It cannot fit at the same time as a M61 vulcan in a F-104. That is why the gun sits low on the F4E too. the Radar & Sparrow fire control from way back was a big analog piece of equipment.
Yea and i was reffering to ICE and saying you will be dissapointed if you think ICE will have the same flight performance that current F4F family has.
So you misread.
I never said anything about the F4F ICE being better than the F4F in performance or even on par.
So how would I be disappointed again? But let’s do get back on the ER.
Even though we have covered it in full huh
I’m aware there should be differences, maybe I’ll report it because in-game F-4F and F-4E have nearly identical FMs iirc
Well currently F-4F 170kg heavier than F-4E.
I’m sorry who thinks the F4F is equal to 29SMT???
If the F4F ICE doesn’t get AIM-9L-1 (pretty much 9Ms) I’m going to be extremely disappointed
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Well, the F-4F early performs better than when equipped in its standard combat configuration. It was most responsive (in the first couple turns) of all the phantoms in game. Kind of flies like a Mig-21.
Cannot rate well though, kind of like a Mig21.
However, did it it only demonstrate a better one circle ability because it simply lacked CM, sparrows & fuel capacity? Yes, that is a likely reason. Some aircraft in game fly much better without their CM dispensers more than others. Some aircraft receive no penalty for very large additional CM dispensers hanging of the sides at all. GJs mysterious ways at work.
Additionally, you are probably right. The F-4F feels more similar to the F4E more than the F4F Early no matter what. However, it was usually more agile than the F4E in live matches because lower
fuel capacity & no sparrows.
A bug report is appropriate imo, or at least research into it because the differences should be greater besides fuel & lack of heavy Aim-7s.
I think it would be an interesting fresh subject to bring up to the Devs. I think all would be happy to know people even care about those fighters still. Your report can also potentially help the F4F ICE too.
In regards to what @Panther2995 said.
Now that I have actually thought about it. I do not believe for a second the F4F ICE weighs as much as an the F4E of Vietnam. They ICE has an all-digital radar & Aim-120 fire control. Digital avionics, sensors/RWR as well. The radar that it houses comes from one of the smallest noses of a 4th generation light fighter & is the only fighter of that can stack its M61 on top of it as well with no negative modification to aerodynamics shape of the fighter.
The F4E’s AN/APQ-120 is analog, as well as the Sparrow fire control & its avionics. Hell, even the tube television display for the radar display weighs as much as a literal TV from back then.
The F4E cannot store it M61 internally, because of the massive analog equipment of the 1970s. But must have it slung low and protrude. Negatively affecting performance.
Everything on that fighter is analog, bulky & heavy as hell. If anyone has ever had to move an ancient analog IBM military computer will understand that there is no way the nose of both those aircraft is the same & the much lighter nose of the ICE cannot swing around quicker than the F4E.
I understand GJ has not modelled any single one of the numerous, rather countless advantages that fully digital radars, avionics & fire controls have over analog equipment. But it’s never too late at least take into account the massive weight reductions they offer.
if the F4F ICE somehow has the same gross weight as the F4E, it’s not because the ICE’s radar, fire control & avionics that’s for sure. You guys find out let me know. I am curious to know, but busy elsewhere to determine myself.
Anyway. Enough about the F4F out of me in this topic. Hope eveyone is having a great monday
I am sure we will. Everyone else is getting the Aim-120 so we actually did not get anything special for the there. Even the AN/APG-65 already exist in the game for an aircraft that already has Aim9Ms.
I am sure we will get the Aim9L-1s. It will be the new Aim-9B FGW.2 all over again, but this time it will have actual purpose being a modification.
Still doesn’t tell us why you think the N019 couldn’t guide an R-27ER… Especially when it can guide the R-27R and the only change is to the missiles’ motor.
A quick research would’ve give you the numbers but i guess ignoring the truth was more easy.
F4E empty weight:13.757 Kg
F4F ICE empty weight:13.755 Kg
Must be quite shocking for you i think.
Huh?
Both F4 models does have same nose design that contains M61 Vulcan cannon, idk what you’re talking about tbh.
I already told you why multiple times. you just cannot comprehend it because you lack the comprehension unless it is drawn in crayon & explained in a Disney sing along.
The R-27ER responds & cooperates with different X-band main channels that are emitted by N019M Topaz & Mech Radars or greater. Whereas the R-27 is not but operates on older widely known & less main channels.
This is in direct response to the N019 Rubin & R-27R being compromised 1979-1985, all of its technical data & test data stolen & is owned to this day by NATO. All confirmed 1985 by Moscow in public trial & record 5 years before the ER ever entered service.
This is why Ukraine cannot slap R-27ERs on any aircraft unless it has a modified seeker & radar. :)
That is why you will NEVER find an aircraft on the entire planet with R-27ER & a first generation unmodified N019 Rubin. It simply is not technically possible. Only in video games. GJ knows this & stated the only reason it was added was for additional game efficiency :)
**Such other examples are the F-16J or the Yak-141 with its OEPS 29 (IRST) & countermeasure dispensers. Funny thing is Gaijin cannot actually identify what OEPS variant is equipped on the already fictional Yak-141 because it would reveal how more fake the jet actually is. So, they just label it “IRST”.
You just make the easily identifiable rookie mistake of believing everything in a video game as reality because your interest in aviation & weapon system associated is entirely driven by video games.**
You made this up, the seeker is identical
So the standard R-27R is left to fend for itself and the ER is made incompatible with earlier versions?
Quit making stuff up.
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Ukraine uses different modified seekers. Why genius?
Ukraine only uses R-27Rs that are guided by modified Ukrainian radars. Why genius?
The missiles saw no modification, Ukrainian R-27s are sold to the same export customers as the Russian missiles with no modifications necessary for them to fire the weapon.
This is because changes to the radar do not require changes to the missile. It is semi active radar homing, the seeker has a broad frequency range (10-20Ghz) that it can pick up. Any radar that can fire the R-27R can fire the R-27ER because they are identical missiles with the exception of the booster.
Any modification to the signals of the radar is told to the missile via the fire control computer so the missile knows what signals to look for and guide on. Since the two missiles relevant parts are identical, there should be no reason the earlier radar couldn’t fire the ER.
Quit making stuff up.
“The R-27R is left to fend for itself?”
Yes, it’s a very old obsolete missile of an obsolete technology that is already owned by all the known enemies of the Russian Federation. It’s not a child abandoned at a bus stop.
Do you usually have an emotional attachment to inanimate objects you never seen with your own eyes other than in pixelated images? Or is this a special circumstance?
The Soviets & Russian federation DID develop & produce a radar for the Mig29 that can securely guide both the R-27R, ER & EVEN R-77.
It’s called the NO19M Topaz
Newer radars can be programmed to securely guide older missiles. This must be down on the ground before equipping any radar missile. Wait, let me guess you think all radar missiles are not guided by specific frequencies that are unique to the launching aircrafts radar? lol!
What missiles?
Making stuff up says the guy who cannot find a single Mig29 in Ukrainian possession equipped with an ER unless received the N019ME or is using a modified special variant such as the Ukrainian MU1 which uses its own Artem R-27ER seekers.
LMFAO! Ukraine cannot sell intellectual property that belongs to the Russian Federation my guy. IT MUST BE their own seekers & own version of the R27 because the intellectual property BELONGS to The Russian Federation & Vympel.
You are clueless hahaha!
That’s the part i can not agree.
Vietnam purchased 200 mil USD contain R-27s all variant to use on Su-27 and Su-30 but since the factory that made it (Artem) destroyed in 2022, they halled it and still no planes to compensate the contracts.
IIRC, Russian and Ukraine share the license for it.
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