That is different though, you cant even find ground level targets on MIG-23 anymore, when above 1500 meters.
The AUTO change on tornado is actually useful and beneficial for clueless noobs.
The mig change just hurts the mig.
Its identical. Excpet where the F3 and F4s have PD radars, the Mig-23 uses MTI, which only works when tehre is ground clutter. The Mig-23s have been overperforming significantly for the past several years as a result.
No.
I suggest you try the MIG-23 at least in test flight, you will see it is not the same logic.
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They really fucking need to fix the mig23 radars man even the MLD at 11.7 in ARB is near useless.
cant even get it to lock with MTI , while F18s cruise around at 12.3
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The mig23 radars are absolutely dogwater mate I seriously thought the same until getting hte damn things.
The MLD is absolute garbage id rather my F4E over it, hell id rather my FGR2 over it any day
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From SB perspective, im constantly annoyed by the fact the Mig-23MLD is the same BR as the SHar FRS1 and a lower BR than the Tornado Gr1.
4x R-60M and 2x R-24R/T, whislt being the fast thing in the sky and able to turn well, and having IRST and have LCMs, meanwhile im in something subsonic with 4x 9Ls. (I hate the FGR2 so I never play it)
The tornado I wont comment on but for when I used the mirage F1 200 and the Tornado F3 in sim (limited exposure but still) the mig23 wasnt a big issue at all man.
the mig23s dont turn well freely, they lose all their speed as well as this their radar is insidiously difficult to make work properly.
Due to the MTI switch on it.
This isnt a mig23ML / MLD issue, what you are talkin about is the fact the harrier is over BR’d af
Was my first ever “top tier” so played it a lot man and genuineyl won dogfights in sim against MLDs xD
F3, absolutely destroys the Mig-23, but the F3 is at 12.0 and the Mig-23MLD is at 11.3. which means that 3/4 rotations, Mig-23MLD doesnt really have a hard counter as those are pretty much universally at 12.0.
Tornado Gr1 though is not the F3.
The FGR2 is the closest you can get but I personally hate the aircraft (nothing really specific, I just dislike it) and am usually outnumber 2 or 3 to 1.
In either case, why its 11.3 and not 11.7 or maybe even 12.0 is largely beyond me.
F1C-200 in my opinion only really beats it because it has the Magic IIs, in all other respects, Id consider it the weaker of the 2 aircraft.
I played it solid for like 2 years as that was all we had. so burnt out. I hate the cockpit and lack of decent HUD symbology. I find the PDV radar more of a hinderance than an asset, the weapons are infuriating at times, having to choose between fuel tank and a gunpod is annoying (and can guarantee I only ever need a gun when im not running it) . etc etc. But more often than not its a personal dislike rather than anything specific against the aircraft
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The F1200 has better retention, better guns, has also a more controllable turn than the mig23s, i lost count how mnay mig23s ive bet in sim with it TBH, its my best plane for sim though for some reason.
Yeah however the mig23 is in a really poor position radar wise which people seem to forget , if the MLD had its correct function when you can select the MTI mode or not, not automatically it turns on bellow 1500 meters and at an angle to the ground, it would easily be 12.0 in ARB and 11.7 (or 12.0 IMO) in Sim
however, as well as the radar changes, the FM changes basically means you have two choices, when youre a piss missile fast , but cant turn, like genuinely it cant even corkscrew an aim7, and loses soo much energy it leaves it stalled out after two missile dodges.
Overall, the HArrier being at the same or higher BR is an issue iwth sim.
Seen people absolutely rinse with it somehow as well, Think its more to do with its ground attack capabiltiies.
Overall sim BRs could really do with a look at
For ARB the Mig23M is better thanthe MLD BR for BR
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one of the reasons I tend to not use it as well, i have hundreds of games in it in ARB and a few in sim for a first try and TBH it isnt the best, hell wasnt the best back when I got it never mind in the last year xD
Perhaps, but given that the only things you have at 11.7 on bluefor are mud movers like Tornado Gr1 and A-10C, I dont think this is all that big of a deal. Bluefor doesnt get another fighter until 12.0.
So 11.7 would just mean that 11.3 gets some slight relief, though you still have to face Mig-23MLA and MLs.
Given you have IRST, I’ve heard just running 4x R-60M and 2x R-24T and not even using the radar is an incredibly powerful tactic.
Id just do what I do in the FGR2 or F3. Sit at max reheat and never turn. Just BnZ to victory.
Yeah… 2 Br changes, no Sim Changes, not even new brackets. We need a 12.3 and 13.3 brackets.
It did get a few buffs like PDV getting IFF and EEGS, but they’ve still made a number of stupid decisions for it, like adding centre line tanks instead of wing tanks.
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While I agree with the sentiment, have you seen how much damage these A10C’s are doing? they got a minted RWR, HMD, 4 x 9Ms ofc the Gau 20mm and ofc hte ground strike capabilities, they arent in a bad spot.
The tornado GR1’s and such yeah.
See, I seen folks saying that too, yet when Fighting mig23s Ive always got either lucky or outplayed it with popping a CM at the right time.
The R24Ts arent very good in my experience, Im going to at the weekend try the MLD in sim and see how it goes, considering that stuff like F18A are within its range I dont feel too confident xd
(shockingly the F18 sits too low in sim as well btw)
Thats great until someone catches you out and slings a missile your way, it has that much thrust missiles ill breadcrumb CMs or just ignore them
why tf we work IRs on thrust and not heat is excentric but hey ho
genuinely whats killed sim for me rn is taking out a generation 3 plane, Tornado, FGR2, mirage F1 , you know those sort of pre hyper advanced but still modern enough to have nice FMs or radars etc and you just get kerb stomped by F16s and F18s cruising around.
Or not giving it the historical Aim9LS which is a hill ill fking die on it should have them.
Fk even aim9H’s for the sake of balance.
It has basic Aim7E-2 missiles not the super temps which are akin to 7Fs.
has spey engines so cant really get much past mach 1.12 in my experience without taking forever.
has a gun pod so it loses some performance.
As you say no wing fuel tanks which is just silly.
And its radar while slightly buffed is still abhorrent compared to even a standard search PD radar xd
The issue is the lack of a 12.3 bracket. So all 12.3s (and 12.0s when off their single bracket) are all forced up to 12.7 and a confused mess. Also you have no redfor premiums at all at 12+ so matches in that region are always F-18 vs F-18 which is rather dull.
It does kinda make sense when looked at for early jets and early IR missiles, but is woeful for anything more advanced and shockingly bad for the state of the game now.
It cant use the TEMP (litereally stands for Tornado Embodied Modification Package) so the best it can use is the DFs.
I wouldnt mind the Skyflash DFs but there is something funky going on with them when used with PDV
aye It becomes rather Tedious.
yeah it made sense when you had aim9bs and the likes being used on sabers, or the early jets like mig19 and F104, but then when you have aim9G, aim9L, 9Ms, R60s, R60Ms, fuckin R73 etc etc combinec with extremely high thrust planes it sort of kills a lot of planes, look athte fking F5C its as if its IR signature is non existant cause it has low thrust.
Yeah thats what I mean, the Skyflash DF are the same as the Aim7E-2 and the super temps are more closely related to the aim7F though better.
The DF skyflash were only good back when I first got the FGR2 then FG1 then something strange as hell went on and htey just didnt seem to want to go where the lock is.
Like its just not useful at all, combine that with a fat phantom with only 9Gs and it kinda is sucky at its BR
I havent played the mld but the ml has been fine.
It does get less radar missiles though. I am not a fan of the r60s but the radar it still better at low alt fighting than the f4e by a lot.
The r24r is pretty good but the limit of 2 sucks. I would gladly lose the 4 r60s for 2 more r24rs.
Yeah, this is precisely what I mean, I think its something to do with PDV (we use to have PD at they worked fine with that, then we got swapped to PDV) , but im not sure. What I really need to do is use the FGR2/FG1 loads, get some good footage of it doing funky things, get some peer review of that footage and try and figure out why, if its incorrect, then do a detailed bug report. But given I dont like playing the FGR2/FG1, I have no motivation to do what would be quite an involved process.
They are fine though at 11.3, but god awful at 12.0 for RB
Not historical I believe, the MTI just needs to see the ground to work, not have the aircraft itself point below horizon line
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Thats due to the fact the F4E does not have an MTI or Pulse doppler mode.
The ML is the same as the MLD bar it has worse AoA (instantanious turning) as it doesnt have slats.
However, the F4E makes up for no PD radar by having the aim7E-2s and 4 x of them rather than 2 R24Rs.
The MLD being faced up against 12.3 and the 12.7s is absolutely cracked in ARB, you have to point at the ground to get the MTI mode to engage, that or the SRC (search) mode wont pick up a target, and even with thtat the radar is pretty weak and struggles to get a lock, once it has it though it doesnt tend to drop it, in MTI mode that is, In SRC mode its a garbage radar.
The limit is due ot the air craft being limited to that IRL, the R60s are fine
Lets put it this way, ive had more gun kills in my MLD than I have R24R/T kills.
So yeah
on the oolder series migs I believe so however in the more modern mig23s I believe it was a selection thing, seen folks sharing docs on another post about it being recommended to be used at 1500 and below with ground htere.
That doesn’t state it had to fall into X catagories to work.
Its a bit shambolic at best though
For what its worth man, I dont think enough people care to put the effort in. Im at the point where Im aware that the thing is gonna be left as is and just need to cope with it D: xd
In ARB theyre difficult but its blessed by the fact theres a quantity of enemies, can just fly through a crowd shitting missiles out