Remove M51

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
81

There can be a 4.7 panzer 4 and an 8.0 panzer 4 with whatever mods they did to it (or didn’t), then i would be down for it. But not if it means a panzer 4 must always fight m51s.

“If you really must invoke history”, i think there is no point in further discussion then. You discuss if it’s balanced meanwhile i simply don’t care… just gtfo from ww2 m51 :p and other similar crap too (aml90, my behated)

I felt really betrayed after gaijin promised to solve the issue with heat-fs destroying ww2 armor in the roadmap and then they proceeded to move some tanks 0.3-0.7 higher… with some tanks, like m51 in question even staying at the same br, not even mentioning outliers like ikv103 or pt76. Granted it made those tanks get sucked up into higher br matches, but it shouldn’t even be possible for them to meet ww2 tanks, unless they added another version of them at high br.

For me it’s just funny how they added m36 with heat-fs to american tech tree, a perfect opportunity to make a legitimate case where a ww2 tank should fight post war tanks, and instead of moving it to like 7.0, they kept it 0.4 br higher than the ww2 version.

82

The M4s with the 76mm and the M4/T26 are also buffed Shermans with more lethal guns that your " fabled " German tanks see. However, they all also suffer from gun handling issues to varying degrees and the limitations of the Sherman chassis. Additionally, they - Fireflies, 76 and 90 Shermans - are all played far, far more than the M51. You claiming you don’t die to them is without a doubt an objectively false claim.

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83

It’s a WW2 chassis. Your denialism doesn’t change that fact.

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84

M51 doesn’t use HEATFS.
Only HEAT.

Once again, your gross ignorance is showing.

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85

There isn’t, because nothing about WT is historical, and I’m not just talking about the BRs. Real warfare requires combined arms. You can’t have a historical vehicular combat game without infantry, planes, logistics, artillery. How are you going to “relive” the Battle Of Kursk without all this stuff? Or Operation Nordwind? You just can’t.

That’s without getting into the numbers disparity…

Gaijin went with the easiest route. Pit vehicles against one another based on performance. It’s not always implemented correctly, but from a holistic POV it is the right move for a game that plans to have lots of vehicles and lots of players.

You saw what happened in the latest World War? Queue times were almost as bad as sim because everyone wanted to play the German side, since the Allied one sucked. I of course loved the variety of mission types, but I’ve also never had so much ridiculous fun with the Jagdtiger because I was spawning it in an environment where not a single gun allowed on the field of battle could frontally penetrate it.

What do you think would happen if that was the norm?

If you want a historical tank game, and I do want it too, you need to focus on a specific time period, with a smaller number of vehicles, to reduce variables and make sure you can balance them without also compromising too much on historical accuracy.

You can clearly see why Gaijin isn’t going for that sort of thing.

They never said that, they said they would look at balance around era-breaking battle ratings, such as transition from full-calibre to sub-calibre guns. That is exactly what they did.

6.7 is my most played BR in the game. It was night and day. All of a sudden I could spawn the JT in full uptiers without feeling like a complete liability to the team, it was actually playable.

The PT76 is atrociously bad. Nobody would use it if it was higher in BR, might as well remove it from the game.

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86

I don’t die to fireflies often, because i respect their firepower, unlike m51 which makes me angry just seeing it, and they are pretty rare. I die to shermans 76s way more, because they are much more popular. I haven’t played that br for some time and i didn’t see a lot of sherman 90s, so i’m not gonna talk about them.

87

So calm down, stay focused, and kill it. You’ll feel even better afterwards for having killed a tank that annoys you.

That sort of catharsis WT gives you is one of the genuine unambiguously good things you get out of this game.

I once shot down a Swedish 7.7 helicopter with the Jagdtiger and told my friends on Discord that I was squadded up with, “tell the Cold War that WW2 sends its regards.”

It’s meant in an entirely playful and wholesome way, a bit of banter never killed anyone, and you get a sense of achievement out of it. What’s there not to like?

Say the same every time you kill an M-51, and you’ll see how quickly that annoyance evaporates out of your system. :D

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88

The argument that everyone wants to play germany only in such a mm is flawed, because such events are time limited and if they weren’t they wouldn’t be seen as the main game. If they implemented this into regular battles no one would suddenly stop playing the game at all (realistically some people would, but you get what i mean, the game wouldn’t die). People get angry with br changes, but no one stops playing because of them.

89

Well, yes, it feels good, but then it becomes some kind of game lore… I want realism, not lore.

90

So in this post you admitted that you were lying about dying to the M51 more than any other Sherman. You also admitted that you don’t take certain vehicles seriously - in this case the M51 - and as such you die to it. Most likely because you misplay.

So, take the M51 seriously. Try to avoid misplaying and you should be able to easily avoid dying to it outside of misplays and ambushes.

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91

Oh, no, in the World War season case, it was definitely Germany. You could see from the interface how many people were queueing up for what. It got to the point that several matches started with more German players than Americans in it, which is kind of funny considering that it was meant to be January 1945.

Your expectations do not match what the game has to offer.

Believe me, I understand on some level. I have downloaded WW2-style German skins from War Thunder Live for every postwar vehicle that I use in my lineups, to try and tune out the fever-dream quality that some match compositions have these days (and also because they look very pretty). When I played a bit of top tier for the last BP challenge that required killing 10 enemies at each rank, I even found a DaK skin for the Radkampfwagen, how cool is that?

But I have other games I turn to, when I need to scratch my WW2 itch properly, because WT is not a WW2 game.

You are setting yourself up for a cycle of frustration. You meet an M-51, think “it shouldn’t be at this BR!” so you don’t take it seriously, it kills you, you get angry because “it shouldn’t be at this BR”, and then the next time you meet it, you’ll be even more annoyed, and the cycle will begin again.

You wouldn’t believe how much better this game plays, when you play it with patience.

Have you ever watched any of Ryanberry’s videos? I don’t necessarily mean because of their content, obviously he’s very good but that’s not the point here, his commentary as he plays is so calming. The match slows down when you’re calm, you make better decisions under pressure. You get more enjoyment out of the game.

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92

Here’s another example of the humour I was talking about, as a way to cope with the “fever dream” nature of time travelling vehicles in WT.

immagine
immagine1280×182 69.2 KB

Every time I see this lineup, and more or less randomly ponder under which condition it could possibly hit the field together, I tell myself, man. Wa.Pruf. 6 and the Heereswaffenamt must have been really high on something in 1946, because wtf is this? 😁

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93

I never said i’m dying to M51 more than to any other sherman, i said i have died to them many times.

94

Oh? Are you now even forgetting what you’ve said prior?

95

This is exactly what’s happening except i know how dangerous it is from the start.

That’s why i’m even on the forum arguing, i don’t want to change the game, i want the game to change, give it a chance. Besides there are not many ww2 tank games…

96

Do you comprehend what you read? The sentence clearly says that i die to M51s more than to fireflies (it says 17 pounders, but it’s my honest mistake), not that i got killed by M51 more than any other sherman, for example m4a2 (76).

97

Sounds like a backtrack to try and back-up your already failed argument.

Here’s some advice for you; Avoid wording things in a manner that heavily imply things. Be clear and concise.

Additionally, you’ve lost this debate ages ago and there’s no hope of recovery. I suggest you accept your L, move along and never make a thread like this again.

98

The only thing you can say i backtracked is the 17 pounders bit, because for me 17 pounder is kind of short for firefly. I think admitting to a mistake is only good.

I didn’t lose anything, i didn’t make any failed arguments. What’s important for me turns out irrelevant for you.

I understand it as essentially saying gtfo, which i find a bit inappropriate for a forum.

99

I didn’t say that nor imply it but if the shoe fits? Feel free to lace it up.

100

Seems like
SKILL ISSUE

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