Pen ist the most important stat. So 400mm pen at this BR is hyper op. DF105 with exactly the same gun and shell is BRed at 8.0BR. Its insanity. The sherman hull is even better armored and still the M-51 BR is 6.0. Still people defend 400mm pen at 6.0 as good thing.
How is 400 mm pen that only kills crewmembers in a straight line different to…
250/210 (0/30) mm pen that only kills crew members in a straight line. (Challenger APDS)?
381/308 (0/30 mm pen that only kills crew members in a straight line? (Charioteer APDS)?
Also, why are people complaining about the M-51 and not the Ratel?
I have a guess:
The M-51 is visible and obvious. It’s literally the only tank israel TT players can use for hundreds of games. It’s a reserve tank, so it’s gonna be there as all 3 of their respawns.
Ratel 90 shows up at the start of the game and then disappears and only some british players even use it.
This is despite the fact that the ratel 90 is far more jarring and anti-immersion than “Sherman with fancy ammo.”
6 Likes
Pen is not the most important stat. You probably only use APCR because “more pen better”
4 Likes
Compare the mobility between the M51 and DF105, which has the Marder IFV hull. DF105 has twice the Power to Weight Ratio, gets same reverse speed as forward (75kmh), and has a 5 sec reload. Both of these tanks have next to useless armor, with both of these tanks having trolly armor sometimes. But it is clear what is better.
2 Likes
Not rly more armored especially at this br and also by this logic fox needs to be 3.0
1 Like
people complain about these because german mains and US mains cry when their oversized heavy tanks gets penned by a heat slinger. They dont complain about heat slingers in their TTs (M50, M56, Jpz 4-5, T92, M41s) and they only remember M51 because they see it a lot and they complain about ratel as “atgm too strong”
1 Like
Russia mains*
1 Like
AFAIK, either DF105 or AMX30 has superior manoeuvrability than M-51.
Also, Better armoured for what? being 50cal-proof?
Your claim sounds like,
Wolverine is insanely broken since it shares the same gun and shell of M4A2 (76) W on 5.3BR.
Of course, we can have another example for it. Archer and Firefly.
Getting penned by 400pen HEAT can be annoying. but punishing only M-51 is brutal.
3 Likes
Type 61. Less armor, slightly better mobility. Same reload despite being a smaller caliber.
Later war heavy tank mains believe that armor should be an offensive tool. That is where the problem is.
2 Likes
seeing as this thread is alive, again…
the super sherman is only a problem ad 6.0 because you can spawn the bloody thing three times. They get spammed because it has three lives like its arcade and has a god shell. Everything else about it blows.
No, take for example the sturer Emily at 4.0 in the German tree despite having a 128mm gun and being able to punch well above itself it’s still 4.0 due to terrible mobility and armor. DF105 is faster and has an oscillating turret for better gun stabilisation as well as the ability to scout
1 Like
To its credit, the Type61 has amazing optics for its tier, a better rangefinder, and better mobility/suspension.
Yeah, 4-8x is so much better than the 8-16x on the ST-A1 and 2. You can actually engage enemies at distances closer than 800m. Rangefinder and mobility sure, dunno on suspension. It’s pretty bouncy at times.
In return the M-51 gets an outright better gun in the post-pen department. HEAT shells’ postpen is directly influenced by remaining penetration.
Those which, even if they have the first shot, cannot one shot-kill it.
It’s 2025 and people still think M-51 is OP because of it’s pen.
3 Likes
Examples, still waiting
Then being able to disable the enemy is enough
1 Like
sturer and dicker max are amazing snipers/assault guns. They can lolpen anything at its BR and have insane depression
1 Like
My comet with APDS cannot one-shot kill M-51s D:. Also, ugly M-51 can pen me anywhere!
Wait. I cannot one-shot kill anything with APDS unless I hit ammo.
Wait. Everything larger than a machine gun can pen me anywhere.
Remove all tanks except comet!
1 Like
Apds isnt as bad after the spall buff center mass is 1 shot most of the time