It’s fine against tigers and stuff, but against T-54s and higher BR tanks it becomes quite bad. Try playing the Amx-30 and you will see.
That makes no sense. You are putting a worse vehicle at the same BR just because it has the same gun. Should the 76m Sherman’s be 6.3 because that’s where the Jumbo is?
It’s a video game. Balance>historical accuracy/realism.
That is only true if you take that statement at purely face value. My point was that it can be killed as easily as it can get kills.
I played Leopard 1 enough to know that it’s not the case at all. Their interior layout is actually easier to one shot with HEAT, much easier.
The issue isn’t a T-54 1951 or T-55A, the issue is T-55AMD-1 or T-55AM-1, which are absolutely busted at their BRs and should also be moved up. That’s a different issue that affects not only M-51.
It makes sense, if you consider historical accuracy as an important factor for BRs.
Btw I would change the BRs of WW2 vehicles a little too in the direction of historical accuracy, but what we have now is perfectly fine… apart from cold war stuff of course.
No, you don’t actually mean what you say, it shows in your arguments.
For you it’s not balance > historical accuracy, it’s balance - yes, historical accuracy - no. An Israeli tank at WW2 BRs is a very jarring historical inaccuracy, so jarring it’s hilarious to see.
So 2S25M without a stabilizer, laser range finder and thermals at 2.7? Got it. Or maybe 2.7 is a little too low, how about 4.3, same as Sturer Emil. Maybe nerf the mobility a little too, right? And only HEAT-FS, because APFSDS is too easy to aim with.
Likewise
You reposted to this topic after 5 months.
The HEAT changed.
It is not.
In many cases 105mm gun on M-51 doesn’t do much, while Your armor and mobility doesn’t stand a chance against enemy guns.
Why is it always the same.
You are not a good person to say things like that.
lmao.
Can’t wait for You to see the IKV 103.
HEAT-FS≠HEAT. Heatfs is much better an more consistent.
And it isn’t an important factor when balancing vehicles. Vehicles should be balanced primarily on their capabilities (within reason) rather than historical accuracy.
The thing is, it’s a sherman. Sherman’s are wwii tanks, and seeing one doesn’t feel out of the ordinary. Balance should always be put above historical accuracy, because history isn’t balanced.
I never said anything about that. It clearly should be it’s current BR. I don’t get what your point is.
I’ll switch your logic up on you. Should a Sherman be 8.0 simply because it has a good gun?
I didn’t really notice a difference between M-51 I played today and DF105 I played more than 5 months ago, both use the exact same round.
BS
Who is then, enlighten me. Because I bet that even if I was the best player in the game you would say that my personal experience with the vehicle doesn’t matter, contradicting yourself, or that balance should be based on average players or something. It’s a never-ending stream of ad personams and dodging the arguments.
I know about IKV 103 and it also should be 8.0. It has more TNT equivalent than Leo 1 and the reload is not terrible. It will have low shell velocity regardless of the BR. It’s a fairly small and sneaky TD with 16 degrees of gun depression. It has 1.5 times more power to weight ratio than M-51, so it can’t be slow, and also has good reverse speed of 11kph.
It would probably a better pick at 8.0 than M-51, if you get experience with the gun’s trajectory.
Of course it is different
I played it much more and better than You.
If You were just a good player I would consider Your words, but throwing a skill issue argument when You are not in a position to do so is not great.
lmao
While playing Leo 1, I also played DF105 enough to know you’re lying or at least the difference is negligible. Again, the DF105 uses the exact same round as M-51.
Like I said in the beginning, we will never agree.
What? … hahahahahaahhhahahahaha
Saying “you want a Sherman at 8.0?”, while talking about M-51 is the same thing as saying “you want an M60 at 10.0?”, while talking about M60 AMBT.
Clearly getting a few nukes and consistently doing well over kd 1 doesn’t make me eligible to decide if a gun is good or not lmao. You need to be a world class player to state simple facts.
What’s funny is you thinking it should be lower in BR than a Hetzer.
No it isn’t. The AMBT makes improvements beyond armament when compared to other M60s. It has a far stronger engine, better transmission, and the armament itself is superior in every single way (except in reload when comparing explicitly to the CM11).
You cannot say this about the M-51. It has the worst mobility of any Sherman. Even in armament, compared to other Shermans, the M-51 makes sacrifices that are otherwise not found on the AMBT when comparing to the M60s, like post penetration damage, losing the stabilizer, or having a slower reload.
1.5 K/D in 18 battles, don’t make me laugh.
For a vechicle that You describe it, it doesn’t seem like it.
You know that penetration is not everything right?
You’re beating around the bush. The fact of the matter is that M-51 is a massive upgrade over something like an M4A3E8 or Jumbo 76. Regular Shermans will never kill a T-54 frontally, not even close.
What would you choose when fighting a T-54? M-51 or Jumbo 76? Jumbo 76 is 6.3, so theoretically better. Silly Israelis should’ve bought Jumbo 76s from the Americans.
Ad personam yet again hmm? While also missing the point, bravo.
You’re right, let’s bring the Waffentrager Krupp-Steyr down to 4.3, the platform is so awful.
Penetration is not everything, introduction date is important too. M-51 can fight it’s historical opponents without any issues whatsoever. T-54 is probably a less dangerous opponent for it than T-34-85.
I’m not.
I’m saying your comparison of AMBT to M-51 sucks.
What you think of BR placements in the end is your opinion. People can have them, I don’t care. Neither does Gaijin, and they themselves make our opinions fairly meaningless here since they entirely decide BR placements.
You are the one who started with “skill issue”.
I’m just pointing out how things are.
It is not and never was.
It’s not actually an ad personam, but can be read as one. I didn’t say he is wrong, because he has a skill issue. I said that in my opinion he’s wrong, because in my experience the gun works perfectly fine, and he just has a skill issue, if he can’t make the gun work. I can’t blame you for thinking it’s an ad personam.
Back to square 1.
And the opinion is based on personal experience which can be evaluated by looking at Your stats.
HEAT are and always were not reliable.
Sorry but Gaijin has showed many times that the year of introduction has nothing to do with B.R.
lmao what??? what even???
Anyway in all seriousness it does just fine at 6.0. It has paper thin armour all-round (except perhaps the mantlet) which can be a detriment at times but at least it does very well at its job as a sniper.
Oh, and the bonkers shell as well. We already know its full potential but other than that I see no other reason to really uptier it.
7.7 is no place for it. With ERA, APDS and even APFSDS around it won’t survive for long there.
You speak the truth.
All these 1960s SPG howitzers, and the M-51 are dumped into the 5.0-7.3 WW2 spread and they completely ignore the armor of everything they face. They’re point and click experiences compared to how everyone else has to play at that BR.
Anyone saying the M-51 is a good tank is simply delusional.
Is it good when the HEAT pens? Sure. However.
The pen is inconsistent so it’s a dice roll on even dealing lethal damage. The rest of the tank is basically garbage. The gun itself is a mid dice-roll because of how inconsistent it is.
Which are not bad by any means.
Their reliability is definitely good enough and not something you can’t make up for with another round. Once in a while you’ll get a fluke, but that’s not a factor that should be taken into consideration. 105mm HEAT deals very good damage for the reload M-51 has.
90mm HEATs and lower are somewhat lacking, but only when talking about MBTs like M48, not rat tanks like AML-90, which are supposed to have bad firepower and it’s too much firepower for them anyway.
The tanks you can’t easily one shot are usually the ones you wouldn’t be able to even pen frontally with a normal tank.
That’s exactly what’s wrong with the game.
I agree. I think that it does even more than fine at 6.0 and can be moved up to 8.0.
There is no era or APFSDS at 7.7, you know what’s at 7.7? Maus, IS-4, Conqueror.
APFSDS appear at 8.3, ERA and composite armor at 8.7, which is a problem with BR compression. More for ERA, less for APFSDS, because early APFSDS rounds are worse than HEAT-FS against conventional armor anyway.
The entire point of this post is to say that what you’re saying is a load of shit. The gun is not a dice-roll, it’s a very good gun and the platform is fine.
