Is3, the last ww2 tank (technically not, but you know) and some other tanks that have ww2 technology ONLY, for example t54 without heat or apds, should be at like 7.7 and everything past that needs a complete rework, decompression or however you want to call it. Those crap modified ww2 tanks would be then at 8.7 and stuff like m46/t54 with heat at 9.3.
It’s not ideal, since tanks like m46/t54 with heat wouldn’t be able to meet an is4, but that’s what you have to do to keep tanks like m51.
Now if such small group of tanks makes such a big problem for the famous tanks everyone wants to play, why shouldn’t they be removed? Maus got removed, why m51 can’t be.
It would not be accurate, but it’s an example you have made up. Here’s one that would be accurate: Pz 35(t) vs KV-1, as per the battle of Smolensk. Have fun.
As for Tigers, sure, no problem. There will be ten Shermans for each Tiger on the field, though. It’s accurate after all.
I can’t believe I, as a German main, have to say stuff like this. I guess there’s a reason for the stereotype.
Despite it having a 105mm HEAT Yeeter, I am content with where it currently is, and I have barely even played it.
The reason for it being 6.0 is due to the following: Its based off the M4A3 chassis, a french 105mm gun that is NOT autoloaded, and the fact that its the first Israeli tank you unlock, so Israeli players are ALREADY at a major disadvantage when compared to other nations, who start at rank 1.
When War Thunder Ultrasim (the Discord server) prepared the rules for the event meant to “re-enact” the Battle Of Smolensk, they also (obviously) drafted a list of the allowed vehicles for the match. Since only tanks that were actually there would be allowed to participate.
Now, I would actually recommend reading the entire document, because it’s a good case study of how much work you need to do, to produce something that approximates historical realism while using War Thunder as your starting point (all the rules they added about repairing, about stationary gun emplacements etc). But to keep this short, I will focus on the lineup element of this, because it’s a good snapshot of what “historical matchmaker” would actually mean.
Would I play something like this? Hell yeah, it sounds like a challenge and an incredibly immersive experience. I have a few very busy months ahead of me at work, but after that I’ll definitely get in touch with these guys and try to attend at least one of their re-enactments.
Would this be player-friendly, and/or be “fairer” than a Tiger E fighting an M-51? I’m sorry, I just don’t see how.
How about no. That does not make people happy it only pissed a ton of people off, as we want to play whatever we want to play without restrictions. If you put restrictions you basically kill the casual player which is the majority leaving only competitive ones leaving Gaijin with no profit at all. I’m not saying I agree or deny the idea. But it doesn’t work with WT as an overall.
I don’t think you’ve understood the content of my comments. I was explaining to him why historical matchmaking wouldn’t work in WT, and that if he wants that experience, he can find that in dedicated spaces, like roleplay focused custom battles.
Most of the time, it’s the people who want to play the famous tanks that are the problem. I was blindsided by someone on my own (German) team complaining that I was using the M109G simply because “it was a cold war vehicle”. It really makes me believe that people have the wrong set of expectations for this game.
The Maus wasn’t finished, meanwhile, the M-50, M-51, and Chilean M-60 whenever that comes to game were all used in active service.
The Panther II, Kuelian, Maus, and Tiger 10.5 did not.
3 of those were never finished, The Panther II was just a hull and was never completed because a designer realized that placing metal skirts negated the effects of the tank rifle’s penetration.
While the Kuelian wasn’t completed cause the war ended.
The Tiger 10.5 wasn’t built and left on blueprints for a ton of reasons, one main one is recoil and the gun being too heavy.
The Maus on the other hand was a turret and a hull of 2 different variants. While it did run under its power it wasn’t functional in terms of combat and for War Thunder did not fit any BR bracket. On the left side if it was 6.7 would have been too damn well armored including downtiers. On the other hand at 8.0 would have been killable, slow, and easy prey. Unless the other team was consisting of mostly Maus tanks then it was a pain in the ass to win.
You mean remove any vehicle that just killed you?
If the M51 is so utterly lethal why you just get one and simply enjoy ten kills per game every time?
.Had good games in the M51 and had bad.Its a glass cannon with a good gun and inconsistent ammo.It’s big and it’s slow.
WT is so full of vehicles that shouldn’t be meeting each other that all you can do is stop playing entirely.
Recently i played at 5.7-6.0, where a lot of players use the M-51. I played with germany 6.0 (Tigers and Panthers) and china 5.7 (T-34-85 and M36), and i had no issue dealing with those tanks.
As many have said, the M-51 is a glass cannon. The only thing it has in high pen.
Even if i was playing with a Panther, that has armor, and i semi rely on it, i had no issues.
You just look badly on that tank and it dies, it has no survivability, and no armor.
The only times i did not penetrate is was due to bad shots from my side, and those are totally my fault for not aiming (maybe aside from 1-2 shots that were due to the gun just not shooting where i aimed, but it was just that, 1-2 times out of a lot or so).
I didn’t even took it as a priority target except for a few rare cases.
Does it means that the M-51 is bad?
It depends on the player. A good player can have good games with it, but it is not something OP no brain tank.
Should it move up in BR?
Not at all. As i (and many more) have said, it has high pen, and that’s it.
There’s no way TO fight it when it one shots you in your strongest armor point at any range, or cripples you in one hit from spawn to spawn. It’s able to pen everything it faces, and I’ve even seen some people bring them out to 7.0+ and still get 3+ kills with them. There is really no need for something so busted to be in the game, especially not when most vehicles at the br have no way to counter it aside from possibly flanking it, and even then that’s unreliable because they could hear your engine from a mile away.
“No way to fight it” Man you make it sound like it’s impossible to kill, by that logic the Maus is impossible to kill cause it has tons upon tons of armor. Oh, wait, my APDS, HEATFS, bombs, and rockets will kill it.
In the words of Sergeant Major Avery Junior Johnson
It is a SHERMAN at 6.0
you can look at it and it will disintegrate, you just have a skill issue if you cant kill it.
the only thing it has is a gun.
it has no armor at that br and it is painfully slow.
Oneshots you? Yeah, maybe if it hits your ammo. Maybe. it is a HEAT shell, not even HEAT-FS. It’s damage is bad.
A german cat, or any medium/heavy tank will need more than 1 shots to be killed by that shell (unless ammo rack or a very, very, very lucky shot).
Yes, it is the definition of a “glass cannon”. As i said, the only thing it does well is high pen. All other aspects are just straight awful, or bad at best.
I have seen people get many kills with a GAZ AA at 11.0, so should we move it up there? (Clearly “RuSsIaN bIaS”)
See:
Just look at the swedish tech tree dude. Ikv 103 is at 4.0, and has a 400mm penning 105mm HEAT-FS, yet that thing is a piece of crap. When it came to the game it was at 7.3 or something, now it is at 4.0.
Why? BECAUSE PENETRATION IS ALMOST LITERALLY MEANS NOTHING!!!
High penetration alone is meaningless without also taking other things.
You want a few examples? Soure, here you go:
Germany:
–Sturer Emil: It not only has high pen, but it is APHE with 800g of TNT, and it has insane gun depression. It must be OP, right? Oh, wait, it is trash.
USSR:
–ZIS-30/SU-57B: high velocity 57mm APHE with awesome penetration, yet they are at 2.3/2.7. They must be OP! Oh wait, they have awful suspensions, they are sluggish, no armor, inaccurate gun, 57mm APHE loves to randomly bounce off angled plate.
–ISU-152: It has 250mm pen HEAT, yet nobody uses it for a good reason…
UK:
–Archer: 17pdr with fast reload at 2.7? Surely OP as hell! Oh wait, slow, paper, gun faces in the wrong direction, open top.
–Achilles: A better Archer. Why would you take it over an M10?
Charioteer: Almost 400mm pen APDS at 5.7? OP! Must be! Oh wait, it is early APDS, and a solidshot with no armor and no reverse speed with laughably small ammo count.
–Conqueror: OMG, better pen than the Leo 2A4 at only 7.7??? With good turret armor??? OP TANK!!! OP!!!. Ohhh, wait, it is one of the WORST tanks in the game. Armor is full of weak spots, and be overpressured by 100mm HE shells if they hit the turret front, it has a long reload with a small ready rack, and the APDS is just awful. Deals no damage, it is inaccurate, and shatters on every little crap on the armor (like a sorage box).
Japan:
–Chi-Ri: Autolading APHE with good pen? Surely OP! Except it is slow, paper, and bigger than an average soviet block house.
China:
–LVTA ZIS-2: A worse ZIS-30.
–PT-76: 200mm HEAT-FS, yet it is just awful.
Sweden:
–Sav m/43 (1946): 240mm HEAT at 3.0? OP it is. Oh, no, it is shit.
–Pvkv 4: 180mm pen APDS on a medium tank, OP! No it isn’t. Turret traverse is awful, has no armor, and low calibre APDS is just useless. The other shell is 57mm APHE with 80mm pen… Good luck with that at 3.7!
–Ikv103: I already talked about it.
This also applies to their reserve tier with 37mm APDS. Before they messed up APDS, i used to bring the Strv m/41 S-II up to 3.7, and it was awesome to just kill KV-1s with it. Now that APDS is useless even in reserve tier.
No way to counter an M-51? OMG dude…
You can kill it with a reserve tier tank from a km away…
But you know what will it usually see even in a full downtier?
T-34-85, Sherman 76, Panther, Tiger. These are the most common tanks, and guess what! They fart in the M-51’s general direction, and it dies.
You know, like this (i chose the weakest shell from those i mentioned):
Yeah, with the silent engines because Gaijin still can’t fix the sounds…
When i was playing the T-10M, i loved that it could just lolpen the turret with APHE and leave the Maus/E-100 on 2 crew.
But yeah, if this were to be true, we could do nothing agains a KV, Churchill, any IS tank, etc…
