What armor, that thing is more paper than the M51,the only thing its better at is the coaxial 20mm and slightly more mobility. And LRF,tho i am not sure if they even have it,havent touched them for years.
Well, idk the pen, but if it’s on par with the Ikv 91 and a bit of armor, and LRF, it makes sense, it’s stabilized too as far as I know, but IDK.
Why the constant talk of “historical”? And your solution to people pointing out all of the super unbalanced histocial stuff is “add a tank no one will play”.
You want to make changes so big that the game will no longer be the same.
Might as well go to the WoT forum and demand that they get rid of HP damage and add player controlled aircraft.
All of this because why? A single tank killed you while you were busy holding W because you forgot that the history channel lied about German tanks being god-like?
If you want historical mm, then we need to do a lot more than that. Mm would need to limit nations to only fighting nations they actually fought and with vehicles that they fielded during a certain time period. How would that work? Would we have to make a line up that is only a certain year and hope enough people are in queue for the same year with a matchable nation?
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The ammunition fired from the M-51 goes 200 m/s slower, at 800 compared to 1000 m/s. On top of that the AMX-30 reloads faster (8.7 to 6.7 seconds compared to 9.7 to 7.5 seconds depending on crew level), has a rangefinder, and faster turret traverse.
So the M-51 with worse hp/ton than the M26 Pershing (11.5 versus 12.03), and no reverse speed has only slightly worse mobility than the AMX-30 with 20 hp/ton and significantly better reverse speed.
Yeah, that doesn’t quite compute.
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Yes because all tank around 7.7 are perfectly balanced with armor and stbz…
This is one of the most stupid arguments never readed in this forum. So the new german SpZ LGZ need to be move to 5.0 because can be penned frontally by M3 Stuart and i dont know lets move the Maus to 6.7 too since the few 6.3 and 6.0 tanks can lolpen his forntal armor , Cmon and you talk about thinking??? really???
Okay, so a Panzer 2 fighting an IS-4 is balanced? Or don’t go that high, what about a KV-1? A T-34? Because they actually met on the battlefield. I am not even saying a Panzer 4 with the short gun, because they meet in game too, and guess what happens? The Panzer dies.
Oh, do you want another example? Sure, here you go:
The french H-39 was used by israel. In. The. Cold. War.
The H-39 that is utterly useless agains INTERWAR tanks.
Oooohohoooo, there is more.
Panzer 4 was used by Syria, so it must see cold war tanks too.
And then, what you have said would make prototypes, or tanks that never fough literally unplayable. Literally. They were never used, so they can only fight the dust that falls onto them.
Even if you put them into their era, what about the Concept 3?
You know a big, slow car from the mid '70 with the gun of a Comet…
Do you think it would be fair for it to go against an Abrams?
BRUH bro.
So in real life a crew can repair a tank’s track from the inside of the tank in 15s?
Or casually swap a new engine?
Did the Sturmtiger reload in 40s? I don’t think so.
This game is barely “realistic” at all. Why?
Because then it would be unplayable.
Dude, literally any tank can farm those tanks with ease, due to them being played mostly by wehraboos.
I could bring up a Stuart and have positive K/D against 5.0-7.0 germany, the players at that range are just braindead.
You got it backwards. Realism is (or can be) important, but it also has to be reasonable.
Again, just watch Spookston’s historically accurate series. I don’t think you would be happy if your tank just randomly explodes, because in real life it used to sometimes.
Here is a link:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIZjG8LXADktPFu_kAPK4xo_WbHTDhg4a
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Obviously, armor is not the only contribution factor, it’s armor, crew, and most importantly, its gun. If it has 0 armor but can pen anything, that is a top their vehicle, I.e. the Ct-Cv 105 HP, it’s fast, mobile, has a stabilizer, has a good reload, good penetration, but can be penetrated by a .50 BMG. The Puma has good pen (for its BR), great speed, decent penetration(for its BR), and no armor. The M-51, okay armor, no stabilizer, good pen(for its BR), and no mobility, I don’t know your issue with this where it is, it can penetrate everything at its BR, and vice versa. I got into a snipe off with one at 1.6 Km, he narrowly missed every shot short, I shot 3 times 2 times missed, and I 1 shot him, it’s got no ranged capabilities at that BR, and no armor. You have to be mentally numb to think it’s at a bad BR and on top of that, not be able to take it out if that’s your issue. If the issue is that fighting WWII tanks, that’s cool, I agree, they should implement two modes where it’s solely WWII/Interwar and one that’s solely Cold War/Modern, I see no issue with that, we have these separations in Sim Battles.
My issue is equal or worst tanks are in higher BRs so i dont undertand why this is so low. This thing can one shot T-54s and is facing KVs and Tigers, is retarded, basically no lineup and the most of the time is teamed with incompetent allies teams is only barrier for another stupid op tank.
6.3/6.7 is his BR in other case just move down all the others HEAT/HEATFS tanks.
Like I said, make a generationaly separated battle mode/modes. WWII/Interwar, and Cold War/Modern, all it takes is some changes, it’s BR isn’t the thing you’re mad about, it’s the vehicles it’s facing. Historically speaking, no it shouldn’t face Tiger II’s or KV, although I’ve never seen a KV at this BR, only Tiger II and IS-2’s
While i completly agree with you, but this one is just dumb. Tanks like T29/30/34, T28/95, Maus, E-100, IS-3/4/6 are WWII, and even the IS-7 could be potentiall from there. Do you think it is fair for those to fight Tiger 2s, Pershings, etc? And those are just the better ones. What about normal Tiger, Panthers, Shermans…
Historical MM is just dumb, and people should forget about it.
That’s what I was saying, do you want a historically appealing opposition, or do you want a decent fight. If they could find a way to historically match make and keep BR ranges realistic and together.
It still would not make any sense. What could counter an IS-4? Or IS-3? The german 128mm struggles against them, and now consider it from the point of the average german main with 1 working braincell…
On the other hand, there is a competent Maus player will do the same to the others.
And then what about cold war tanks that are very low?
Have you seen low tier sweden?
A third of their tanks bellow 4.7 are from cold war. So now they won’t even see battles? I dont get how would you balance it…
Idk either, but I know about the Swedish, that’s why they have Sabot rounds, but I honestly don’t know, the only reason I say this is because the Strv 103 C would devastate everything in its BR bracket at that time period. It’s realistic right if that’s what they want, bring it back as an optional mode and see them flee back to AB/RB soon after getting demolished by these weapons.
No. The tanks themselves are from cold war. All the Pvkvs, the Ikv 103, Even the Sherman and Comet was bought AFTER the war ended.
On the note of the 37mm APDS, yes, it is cold war too, but those are just plain useless after they nerfed APDS.
Also, israel used H-39 tanks in dthe cold war. You know, that tank is useless agains interwar tanks, but then it should face T-55s. Great.
It reliably one shots both. It’s just that many WT players - not just German mains - dislike the armour meta and having to memorise where to pen what.
The 128mm is one of my favourite guns in the game. If yoy learn to use it with precision, it’s insanely strong. Treat it right and it will serve you right.
It also has the zoom to facilitate said precision. I think most players who use the JT don’t even know it has commander’s sight and you can use it for gun-laying. That really allows for surgical pixel hunting in the right situations.
EDIT: obviously that was not meant to refute your wider point. As you can see from my earlier comments, I also don’t think historical mm fits in War Thunder.
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You are out of your mind if you think M-51 is even comparable to AMX-30 at 8.0 lol.
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The only issue is that you are in that 0.0000000000001% of the germany player who has more than 2 braincells. I mean that is not an issue, it is a good thing.
The issue is that those ramaining 99.9999999999999% of germany players collectively share 1 braincell, and you can give them a bloody nuke, and they will still fail to kill a Hellcat.
They sit all day watching “History” Channel telling them that the Tiger 1 was never penetrated frontally, and that it is better than any MBT in the world (I am not joking, i know someone who actually thinks this, tho the History Channel part was later added by me, but after Ancient Aliens, i actually think they will pull off something like that someday)
Btw, can you tell me why do wehraboos pop smoke right after they spawn at the start of the battle? Like they aren’t even on a map where you can shoot from spawn to spawn.
Do you (or anybody) have an explanition for this behaviour? xd
I mean this:
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They are the same! After all only the gun matters in this game.
Let’s just ignore that the AMX has a 20mm, really good mobility, and actually troll armor…
This dude actually needs help, i think.
I know you are exaggerating for emphasis, but to discuss this seriously, I think this is one case in which the meme is highly overstated compared to reality.
I’ll ignore Thunderskill (since it is very unreliable for global data) and talk about my own anecdotal experience with the game.
My win rate in ground RB for the last few months has been positive, as I’ve gotten to a point where I think I’m a decent, broadly average player. Why is this relevant to this discussion? I bring this up because in GRB, unless you’re one of those Very Good players, you’re not going to just reliably carry 15 other people.
I only play Germany, which also often plays alone on its own team due to how many players queue up with it. If so many of them were really so terrible, I would not be on the winning side of a match more than 50% of the time. Even if I was very good.
Of course there are matches where I can see that I made a critical difference. Dropping a nuke with the JT, for example, but other things too. I had a 5.0 Battle match on Abandoned Factory recently where I got 16 kills and basically cleared our cap that was being taken by the enemy, I was quite proud of turning that game into a win. But these are the exception, and you can’t substitute yourself for an entire team.
In my opinion based on my thousands of battles with German team mates, there are four macro categories of German mains in GRB.
1 - inexperienced players grinding through the tree, like I was. Especially bad are those that go straight from Pz III M to Tiger H1 (I thankfully did not do this). Germany has more players of this type than other nations due to the obvious reasons.
2 - history channel Wehraboos as you correctly ID them. Press W, don’t angle, don’t learn weak spots, die. Repeat.
3 - recovering Wehraboos. Having experienced the fragility of their machines, they course-correct too far in the opposite direction and never venture forward again. They sit in the same spot on the map and snipe in Tigers. Some think they’re Michael Wittmann reborn, others have read the game wiki which at basically every German tank past the low BRs says “engage at long range if possible!” and have taken it to heart.
4 - those trying to get better. I’m very much in this category.
I’ve seen others do it as well, and I can’t really explain it. I mean, why do people spray machine guns? Or fire the main gun? In spawn, which is bad enough, but even approaching contact, which can get you killed because of their stupidity. That is completely mystifying to me. Literal thoughtless button mashing.
I think the most annoying thing I experience is when I’m, for example, in a 5.7 full uptier and see the few downtiered guys on my team, misusing their Tiger II or their Jagdtiger, while we “grunts” have to do the hard work. There are several incredibly good vehicles in the German tech tree (much better than they were IRL, though that goes for many other nations in game too) that are completely wasted in the hands of bad players.
The JT in particular I just find personally offensive. In some matches that will be the only gun on the German team that can reliably deal with some strong enemy armour and you’ll see them taking pot shots at the UFP of an IS-3 and just slam your face against the desk in frustration.
This is a gun that allows you to do this. If only more players knew how to use it…
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