Remove First stage ammo system

The first stage ammo system sounded like a decent idea when pitched (just like Volumetric) but in reality it is just an unfinished, unrealistic and unfun mechanic.
Most of the time the reload rates given by it are utterly unrealistic or outright impossible and ther eis 0 consistentcy within the system.
Lets take the Strv m/42 DT. it takes a bit over 35s to refill the first stage ammunition. Which makes no sense considering three shells get loaded at once via a canister system. the loader in the tank has nothing to do but to refill the canisters and then replace them after 3 shots are fired. So he should never need to stop the “replenishing” of the first stage ammo even if you fire. There is 0 difference between this system and a full autoloader in consistency. Only that the Loader loads the autoloader while inside the tank instead of prior to going into combat.
Next lets take the Begleitpanzer 57. A Tank armed with a 57mm gun and an loading system very much identical to that of the L62 anti SPAA. Shells are dropped into a guide and thats it. So how can the loader take 3s to load a single shell if he just has to take as many as he can grab from a box and place them into the guide? And why does he need to wait for the gun to stop firing when the entire system is designed to be loaded while firing? It shoudl have no reload time at all just like the L62.
Ok another one. The Centurion. Sure it is a big shell and a fairly cramped turret to move around in. But Even then I find it hardly plausible for the loader to need over 1 minute to fill 6 shells after firing the last one when in real life a well trained crew could fire 15 shells in the same amount of time. Ofcourse a demonstration does not refect real combat, but it once agin shows that the reloading times Gajin choose are just fantasy.
You can take any number of tanks but the one thing consistent is that outside of very few tanks every single instance of “first stage reload” is unrealistic, inconsistent with other similar systems in the game or both.

So I argue that the entire system needs to go. Gajin has shown 0 interest in fixing any of the issues, which essentially would be done in 1-2h by stetting more realistic reload times (ofc this assumes that gajin did not just set them at randome but actually has sources with time estimations for such actions(ofc they don`t they set it on randome)) or they remove the system and give guns their proper reload all the time and let players imagine a crew member shuffeling rounds in the background like it would happen in reallife anyways.
It is a failed system hampering anything which is not one of the big three, and even Ger, USA and RU suffer from it from time to time.

1 Like

The mechanic is fine, the replenishment speed is just too slow

6 Likes

Do you have sources confirming it is to low? I agree it is to low, but if we allow this to stand then we might as well make other stats a fantasy as well

Reload speed is decided by the devs for a vehicle balancing so you can make suggestions regarding it on the next round of BR changes

It takes 15 - 19 seconds to reload Strv m/42 DT, not 35.
Begleit 57 you’re transferring to the feed mechanism in a roomier turret.
Centurion’s secondary reload is very fast as well.

Reload times are mostly realistic to begin with.
This is a successful system that benefits ALL countries, no country is shafted by this realism.

@ミーナ
Within reason.*

I’m pretty sure it depends on your crew skill.

It does, which is why I went to 15, as 19 is with my current level 17 crew.

1 Like

This conflicts with what the devs say themselfes. And why woudl they ask for sources on reloading times if they do it just for balancing? I know at times they did, like with the Leo 2A6, but outside of taht they always demand sources

First of all I am not talking about a single round. Because in many cases a single round is pointless. Like in my STrv example. Second I took what I saw in my battles but just for you I measured the time it takes for the Strv. 1m14s for a 4 shell reload not counting the 5s it takes for the initial start of the replenishing process.
The Begleit is build to be loaded constantly just like any other AA gun of the bofors factory. There should be no replenishment taking place unless you have to get some ammo from outside the turret. It is fed all the time like any other Bofors in the game already is.
Centurion has one of the slowest first stage reloads in the game. with 18s for a single round on fully trained loader and comander leadership with no expert and ace. that is 1m30s for all 5 rounds. For comparison the M26 with its heavier bigger shell in a more cramped turret takes 17s with lvl 3 on both relaod and leadership.

And It benefits all countries? You should talk to a France, italy and Britain main. Ru is almsot never affected by it just like germany and the US.
For britain it breaks their entire top tier lineup as they are stuck with small first stage stores. The French autoloaders take more time to move a single shell 10cm than it takes the 2S3M to movea 155mm shell half a meter and through 2 doors.

It is the very opposide of sucessfull

I mean, IRL it would take 15 - 45 minutes for AMX-13s to replenish their ammo storage.
In WT it took around 8 minutes a few years ago. It’s more than double the speed now.
Centurion is ~10 seconds on my median crew.
Soviets have had 45 second reloads for 1st stage ammo since T-64A obtained 1st stage ammo.

Ok I want proof that your centurion takes 10s on a median crew because that is literally twice as fast as for everyone else

My bad, it’s 13 seconds and not in any of my crews.


ok that is not even the same tank… I am on the Centurion. the Mk I.
Which makes even lkess sense because the 105mm rounds are heavier and bigger and the room inside the tank remains the same. Which is why they ready rack was increased because taking ammo from stowage all the time was bothersome…

I also tested some more. Most 6.0 to 7.0 tanks have between 16 and 17s showing that it is truely just a randome number.
So lets remove this system if it has 0 basis in reality and gajin has no interest in actually researching how long it takes to move ammo around in a tank

Oh, I assumed you meant the 105 since big gun.
I’ll check the 17 real quick.
19 seconds. Fair enough.
But yeah, if you have suggestions for second stage reload speeds, by all means provide an argument for tanks, or systems.
I miss when autoloaded tanks had a 20 second 1st stage reload.

As I said remove it. It is pointless right now and only frustration is caused by it. there is no downside to removing it

There is exclusively downside to removing it, cause we go back to longer reloads.

1 Like

Then lets make it like this
between 0 and 60mm 1s
between 61 and 105mm 2s
between 105 and 125mm 3s
and between 125 and 200mm 4s

i think the mechanic is fine just needs to be shortened slightly as well as the loader should get to work sooner after you stop firing there is a decently long delay before he starts reloading the 1st stage

1 Like