Feels like Gaijin went: Hmm, a lot of NATO tanks got top tier APS now, we must quickly add something to Russia or it’ll not be having everything there is to have.
I’d much rather face a bunch of crappy T-90’s and average T-80BVM’s than a bunch of Strv 122’s and Leopard 2A7’s in my M1A2’s.
If you haven’t noticed that War Thunder is absolutely filled to the brim with prototype vehicles/equipment across all nations until you looked at a T-90M Arena, you might need to visit an ophthalmologist.
The difference is that the M1A2 Trophy-HV is the best top-tier MBT in the entire game, whilst the T-90M and T-72B3A are the worst top-tier MBT’s.
Besides, the US got two MBT’s whilst Russia only got one, by your own logic that’s Gaijin favouring USA over Russia.
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Oh no, Russia got a mediocre T-90M but with an APS. The horror.
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I mean, he has a point about the lack of proper documentation. It’s not an issue that it was added, just that it some how met the technical proof burden that other nations have had to get equipment that some how works worse for balance reasons.
Try and be reasonable instead of making arguments that aren’t being made.
Edited for spelling
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He never claimed it wasn’t. You’re making an argument that wasn’t there.
A. Prototypes are mostly older vehicles
B. Had more documentation than the t90m aps system which is still classified and new.
C. Also a lot of those prototypes kind of suck and were half baked in their implementation with missing features or gaijin picking and choosing what to include out of planned or projected capabilities.
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Hey bro, lets keep this on topic.
Oh I don’t disagree, It’s just that I stopped taking the guy seriously after I read the post before the one I replied to.
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Either you take issue with all of it, or none of it.
Don’t use the typical and tired double standards where they find issue with it simply because it’s on a Russian vehicle.
The M1A2 SEP v2 has an experimental Laser Warning System & Rapid Obscuring System (2018) modeled in-game that’s not been selected for wide-scale use.
The Black Night is a purely experimental/technology demonstrator vehicle with an active protection system (which also intercepts APFSDS) that also has not seen wide scale adoption, yet I don’t see any complaints about that.
I can see two interpretations to their argument: The Arena system is too new, and therefore shouldn’t be in War Thunder. That is simply nonsensical as the Arena program has existed for decades now. Funnily enough, there was even an interest on mounting the system on M1’s.
The second is them taking issue with the T-90M /w Arena being too new, to which I’d ask them what they think of the M10 Booker being in War Thunder.
The arena system as a company product line has been around decades, kinda like saying a pc has been around decades (as a product line) but the new laptop you bought is actually just a year old.
We can argue more semantics but I’m at work and not interested in getting into the weeds with you.
I think the guy made a valid point, there’s a lot of pick and choose what to implement by gaijin and at times it feels pretty unfavorable when I play vehicles that got gimped because gaijin made a personal rpeference choice.
You can argue more, but I’m over it and also this thread is about abrams armor. Let’s drop it and get back on topic.
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Didn’t know NATO was only 3 nations
It’s not and it never will be end of story
NATO was practically US, Britain, Poland, and Greece. It wasn’t only recently when the rest got whipped into shape on simply spending 2% on defense.
Wa wa wa wa shush NATO is not just a 2% mark and btw Germany was spending more then Poland while not at the 2% mark it
Spending $10 when you make $1000 isn’t the same as spending $10 when you make $100. Either way it doesn’t matter everyones on the same page after Russia invaded. Some are even spending beyond the set minimum.
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The first post was a joke.
I’d disagree on T90 part. If we say that T90 is crappy compare to NATO tanks without it’s current armor that is represented in game, that implies that T90 is currently balanced for the sake of gameplay with artificially buffed characteristics to compensate for the overall mediocrity stat wise which allows it to have top tier tanks, NATO on the other hand is scrutinized with a lot of documentation being rejected with label given “Not enough info” which signals that NATO tanks are balanced for the sake of realism within legal limits. Two different ways of balancing, Russia’s “bad parts” are fixed with fake missiles and overdone protection which saves it from being the worst in the game, NATO tanks are heavily restricted with their armor values underrepresented, if the MBT is bad the nation doesn’t get any crutches. Just look at them poor Merkava, is reverse gearbox really worth making more than a meter thick armor be made from foam?
Meanwhile T90M has very specific spots that you have to aim to, which also have overrepresented protection such as immortal carousel and fuel tanks.
Lets say that that Merkava and T90 meet each other after going past corner, in Merkava i have to recognize that i see T-series then think if it’s T90 and not T80 which has weird lower plate, then aim at the right weak-spot then shot. Which doesn’t always do much thanks to it’s modeled spall liners and things mentioned above.
Meanwhile T90 can shot anywhere and Kill/Disable me without thinking. People pay IRL money to lower their reload by 0.5, there’s clear massive advantage of having armor.
In short, my point is, why Italy can be bad at top tier with Ariette but Russia can’t?
Why Israel, being famous for their air defense, has the worst SPAA, but Russia can’t?
Israel’s current MM is 19/20 games against Russia with BMPT which can front kill Merkava not even mentioning the seizure inducing peppering one has to take to take a shot at it and miss.
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No idea what any of that has to do with the T-90M’s being bad in War Thunder.
War Thunder’s meta = Mobility + First hit cripple/kill.
The T-90M has the literal worst mobility at 12.7 and the literal worst firepower at 12.7, that’s why it’s plain bad.
I have a common saying: ‘‘Inexperienced players can be easily identified by them overrating the importance of armour’’.
That’s also why I always said people overrate the SEP v3 prior to it being added, the extra bit of armour won’t make a significant difference in War Thunder’s meta.
I’d also take a wild guess and assume you’ve never played the T-90M yourself, because if you did you’d notice that most of the time you get one-tapped with the first shot you take anyways.
It’s always the same story: People who’ve never played the T-90M talking about how it’s armour is oh-so-important and makes it 12.7 worthy, meanwhile, it’s sitting on pretty much the lowest global stats (Statshark) of any 12.7 tank in the entire game.
Italy has the 2A7HU which is superior to any Russian MBT in the entire tech tree.
Most of the Arietes are now sitting at 11.7, whilst the T-72B3A is currently still 12.3 despite arguably being worse, and the T-90M’s being 12.7 despite being some of the worst top-tier tanks.
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“Just click at the head lol”
For the record, i’m not denying me being bad, but the whole argument is personal attack which can be summed up as “You bad lol, just click at the head”.
Leopard 2A7HU is German import, i’m very much against Leopard spamming trees instead of fixing nation’s signature MBT. With this logic when Greece will be added somehow that’ll make Israel good, as if i couldn’t pick Germany as nation to grind, no offence to Greece.
Also since you mentioned it, if armor really doesn’t matter then why so adamant that it shouldn’t be added to NATO MBTs? After all only bad players point out an importance of armor. Nobody will probably notice it, allegedly.
Just give the Abrams it’s DU armor, give Leos whatever armor they’re asking for and call it a day. Player base will greatly regret this decision.
That’s not at all what my argument is, if you think it is, I would ask you to read my previous reply again.
My arguments are:
- You’ve never played the T-90M yourself and thus you think the typical: ‘‘Grass is always greener on the other side’’.
- War Thunder’s meta isn’t about having the best frontal armour. Mobility, reload speed and responsiveness matter more and the T-90M is awful at these attributes.
- You overvalue frontal armour. Most shots aren’t even to an opponent’s frontal armour anyways. A while back I went through dozens of matches and compiled data on each shot taken against a Russian vehicle. 71% were shots to their sides.
This is why I don’t find the SEP v3 to be superior to the SEP v3 Trophy, the added armour makes very little difference because this game is about not being hit in the first place, whilst inflicting the most amount of (lethal) hits on the opponents.
That implies that a ‘fixed’ Ariete will somehow be able to compete with a M1A2 SEP v2 Trophy or Strv 122B+.
Then why it has the best armor. For balancing? Why can’t the same logic can be applied to Ariette. Why Russia can’t be worst and is artificially “balanced” but Italy can and left in the gutter(If i wanted to play Leo i’d play Germany). This “balancing” only one nation. And again, are we balancing for fun or for realism?
Somehow that supposed to advocate for not modeling frontal armor? Then remove all armor, why bother, side shots kill anyways, also Russia has the least green side protection. And if it’s overvaluing why not add it then if nothing will change? That aside if it’s all side shots what’s the downside of modeling armor on NATO? “Front armor doesn’t matter for NATO but only Russia needs it.”
Like… we should let it be or what? I don’t get the point.
Some vehicles are good and bad in certain things, but we have only artificially or good artificially bad. There will never be true equilibrium, that’s not the point. Are we representing as accurately as legally possible vehicles from different nations or are we making a balanced game?
i.e. You’re making a case that Ariette will not be good with more accurate armor but T90 with more accurate armor will be bad, so we can’t have that because we need balance.
What straw man, “armor doesn’t matter that’s why we balance T90 with armor” “I doubt Ariette would be good but we must help Russia by giving it armor”
All this implies that balancing is done around the top bracket of players who tryhard and pick best of the best regardless of fun. I just want to play the tank i like that is well represented. Playing against Russia is not fun.