Ah, so we should move the F-15A down right? It’s such a bad aircraft… LOL.
Time to move the PUMA up!
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And the Chally!
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How to show you do not know what you talk about in one statement
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what joke of a stat’s site are you using?
all of these are off.
While im not a huge air player, .94 k/d, a little below 1 k/d, air battles wise that’s the norm for most good planes, anything better / reaching “OP” goes up into 1.1-1.3 k/d. - especially when you consider this is a big 3 plane, where there’s a substantially higher playercount, it’s not real surprise the other F-15A’s do much better and have more reasonable stats.
PUMA should receive the fixes to it’s modelling and armor that it’s lacked for a while now, from there it should be evaluated on what changes in it’s performance, however in a short term, they should move down.
While Challengers stats look good monthly, this is impacted by a low player count compared to other MBT’s, the Challenger 2’s at 12.7 could realistically drop to 12.3 and be fine there, however staying as they are and receiving modelling fixes is a better idea.
Monthly stats are never entirely indicative of if a vehicle should move up or down in BR, the vehicle (BMPT’s) on it’s own and what they offer are simply not worth while of being 12.0 or higher.
I might be wrong, but the stats website in the post you quoted looks like thunderskill.
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I didnt bring stats into the convo. You did. I think you made a relevant point-- it’s a big 3 nation so the stats are skewed down. Also it just came out and grinding it stock might be a challenge which might also contribute to a lower K/D–because everything that makes the vehicle potent is a rank 3 mod. Regardless, a vehicle’s K/D is not the only metric which should be evaluated.
My argument has always been qualitative. The BMPT is the best non-SPAA supporting vehicle in the game, even at 12.7, being able to effectively shut down lanes. It’s not about it’s ability to rack up kills quickly–its the fact that it can incapacitate a bunch of tanks very quickly for the team which allows the MBTs to mop up with ease. But it is also no slouch when it comes to getting kills. The missile easily one-shots everything frontally and soviet 30mm APFSDS is still very strong at top tier. Certainly leaps and bounds better than the bushmaster everyone else gets. The BMPT also functions as a damage sponge and diverts fire away from MBTs so that they can do their job.
I’m aware of this, the bmpt’s stats have been on a decline since release and through multiple nerfs either directly to the tanks model or BR, and with their current performance, they’re fine for their BR, and with the vehicles around them and how they perform, doubly so, that’s what my stance is and I used their current perform as a reference to why.
It’s the best support tank, but past that it’s not much better, in engagements against relevant MBT’s, it get’s pretty easily stomped due to it having a low ttk, ttd, and missiles that either kill it when hit or disable it entirely
Personally i find it one of the easiest tanks in top tier to fight in many scenarios simply due to it’s inability to deal as much damage as an MBT can do, whether it be in an Abrams, Leopard, Merkava, or others.
Ataka’s very much do not ohk everything at top tier, if they’re close enough they don’t even hit, and bmpt’s only have APDS max, I’ll just assume that’s a typo
It being a damage sponge is only the case if it’s either sitting hulldown somewhere, or the people fighting it can’t aim, it’s the same Russian tank armor layout we’ve had ingame for years now just without a standard turret, shoot low, avoid era, and it dies. If it doesn’t die, it’s often left completely crippled due to the placement of the fcs module that leaves it unable to effectively fight back.
Unfortunately that’s just not how top tier plays right now, on paper that’s how it could work but often it’s the bmpt’s doing 1 of 2 things
- Finding somewhere to sit hulldown that will likely have no major impact to their team or the game at large.
- Yoloing head first into the enemy team, which will maybe kill 1 or 2 people, and then die.
Actual teamplay that’d make the bmpt “good” doesn’t exist in mass.
Further, a good portion of MBT’s are better in a support role than it, being able to one hit tracks, barrels, and other modules instead of spraying, alongside being able to pick up kills of their own when needed.
Seems like it was, haven’t seen that garbage site in a while now, so wasn’t sure.
anyways hello Renzo, changed my name again :D
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Guys, this thread is about whether SEPv3’s hull armor upgrades are properly modelled or not, and how they could be.
Not about whether the Abrams is the best performing tank in the game’s universe, nor about whether it “deserves” to be properly modelled like every other tank or not “b-because it has good stats during its initial release’s flavour of the month phenomenon”.
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I think it would be good for both parties if all Russian top tier would be raised 3 BRs up with new 15.7 cap so that they’ll play against each other but NATO would remain the same. Gaijin gets their ego boost and can claim that Schwerer Gustav can’t pen T90 and BMPT will get it’s signature adamantium armor without anybody getting upset in the process, and player base gets an enjoyable top tier.
Also, does anybody finds it weird that Russia got T90M with Arena APS that came out literally 3 years ago and wasn’t documented all that well? Russia doesn’t have factories facilities or (probably)personal producing even half of what’s needed for APS system, not even mentioning that they don’t have any recent history of producing modern APS systems, and yet it’s better in every single way than Israeli APS which has been proven in active battles and being improved for the better part of the decade, but we must believe that indigenous APS that surfaced during heavy sanctions on a tank which according to review of captured ones still uses outdated French Thales electronics? This seems really odd to me.
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Feels like Gaijin went: Hmm, a lot of NATO tanks got top tier APS now, we must quickly add something to Russia or it’ll not be having everything there is to have.
I’d much rather face a bunch of crappy T-90’s and average T-80BVM’s than a bunch of Strv 122’s and Leopard 2A7’s in my M1A2’s.
If you haven’t noticed that War Thunder is absolutely filled to the brim with prototype vehicles/equipment across all nations until you looked at a T-90M Arena, you might need to visit an ophthalmologist.
The difference is that the M1A2 Trophy-HV is the best top-tier MBT in the entire game, whilst the T-90M and T-72B3A are the worst top-tier MBT’s.
Besides, the US got two MBT’s whilst Russia only got one, by your own logic that’s Gaijin favouring USA over Russia.
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Oh no, Russia got a mediocre T-90M but with an APS. The horror.
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I mean, he has a point about the lack of proper documentation. It’s not an issue that it was added, just that it some how met the technical proof burden that other nations have had to get equipment that some how works worse for balance reasons.
Try and be reasonable instead of making arguments that aren’t being made.
Edited for spelling
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He never claimed it wasn’t. You’re making an argument that wasn’t there.
A. Prototypes are mostly older vehicles
B. Had more documentation than the t90m aps system which is still classified and new.
C. Also a lot of those prototypes kind of suck and were half baked in their implementation with missing features or gaijin picking and choosing what to include out of planned or projected capabilities.
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Hey bro, lets keep this on topic.
Oh I don’t disagree, It’s just that I stopped taking the guy seriously after I read the post before the one I replied to.
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Either you take issue with all of it, or none of it.
Don’t use the typical and tired double standards where they find issue with it simply because it’s on a Russian vehicle.
The M1A2 SEP v2 has an experimental Laser Warning System & Rapid Obscuring System (2018) modeled in-game that’s not been selected for wide-scale use.
The Black Night is a purely experimental/technology demonstrator vehicle with an active protection system (which also intercepts APFSDS) that also has not seen wide scale adoption, yet I don’t see any complaints about that.
I can see two interpretations to their argument: The Arena system is too new, and therefore shouldn’t be in War Thunder. That is simply nonsensical as the Arena program has existed for decades now. Funnily enough, there was even an interest on mounting the system on M1’s.
The second is them taking issue with the T-90M /w Arena being too new, to which I’d ask them what they think of the M10 Booker being in War Thunder.
The arena system as a company product line has been around decades, kinda like saying a pc has been around decades (as a product line) but the new laptop you bought is actually just a year old.
We can argue more semantics but I’m at work and not interested in getting into the weeds with you.
I think the guy made a valid point, there’s a lot of pick and choose what to implement by gaijin and at times it feels pretty unfavorable when I play vehicles that got gimped because gaijin made a personal rpeference choice.
You can argue more, but I’m over it and also this thread is about abrams armor. Let’s drop it and get back on topic.
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