I’m certain you control their convergence with the convergence drop-down at the beginning of the match. So it would not be too hard to change the convergence in real-time. Simply substitute the selected enemy planes distance for the convergence
I thought so too, but, it seemingly makes no difference… you can select 50 meters, 800 meters, or no convergence at all, the gunners will shoot at the same spot behind the plane. I doubt its modeled at all for gunners
for all gunners probably not, but for larger bombers in particular it is def modeled. You can absolutely see it in something like the TU-4
It isn’t modeled… 50m vs 800m convergence… you guess which is which
They aim at a set point in the distance, convergence has no influence on the distance of this point.
damm, I could swear that 800-meter convergence worked.
Hey! I made a report on Mineshells being weaker / more inconsistent than the rest of 20mm HE.
If you can relate / wanna support it:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/fsQsRgkWZkcc
I kindly ask that if you disagree with anything, to keep the discussion here in the forums rather than spamming the report.
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I’ve seen that… lmfao
I was advised by a mod to report it though so am awaiting on him to check on it, hopefully it works out!
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I have only one thing to say:
Short version:
“Rate of fire”
Long version:
Most 7.7/12.7mm guns does have a fairly better rate of fire
Most 20mm/30mm have a pretty slow rate of fire
The RealShatter is making the hole real,… yet you don’t need a single big hole to saw a wing, but several small ones are enough to saw the wing.
When i see people saying that small caliber is making more damage, they also forgot that they do have More bullets hitting the target than with 20/30mm (as many players also are bad to keep guns on exactly on target when firing)
Most of the time i see players hitting me with 1/2 20mm, then all other rounds goes behind/below
When they do the same with smaller caliber, i’m beeing hit by 10/20 rounds.
As both perforates:
A single 7.7mm do less Damage AP wise, and most of the time it bring inciendiary capabilities, used to burn your aircraft → which then takes massive fire damages
A single 30mm do more damage, and often is filled with a light HE charge, making it to damage modules more for each round.
But since there is a 5:1 to 10:1 ratio of bullets impacting, there is also a Scale of damages.
That scales is favorizing small 7.7/12.7mm calibers with high RoF when doing snapshots (basically what players does the most, as they’re not keeping bullets on target enough)
Then in Head-on (when it is easy to keep on target flying straight to you), it’s favorizing Heavy calibers, as they’re doing more damage, when multiple bullets hits at quite the same time.
→ i was playing some 3.0 lineup in arcade, with 37/20/12.7/7.7mm and i had no problem to kill whatever plane aslong as i was able to put a constant spray of 1/2seconds on target.
The rest of my late experience is the same as described earlier in this post :
Snapshots → bad for 20mm/37mm
No clue what that has to do with realShatter.
It’s super simplified and isn’t really accurate.
Like that:
In which case will a plane have 10 times the RoF of a single 20mm?
Even Bf 109s with a single MG 151/20 that shoots with 700 RPM would only be beaten by a plane with 8 Brownings or 4 ShKAS, not considering that the Bf 109 has two 7.92mm MGs as well.
He is taking the number of guns into account.
Single MG151 on a Bf109 has 700 rpm. 1 second burst gives you 11.6 rounds and with greater dispersion just a few will actually hit. You could add the 2 7.92mm MG on that, but they barely do damage, and that would add 40 rounds.
6 12.7s on a P51D have 1200 rpm each. 1 second burst gives you 120 rounds with a smaller dispersion too.
Sustained hits with the 12.7s would give you more damage, but the 20mm is definitely more damaging in smaller firing windows than 6 12.7s.
So?
Did anyone really argue that 6 .50cals should be inferior to a single 20mm? I don’t think so.
He uses 7.7 and 12.7mm in his example and he said that it didn’t matter whether he used planes with 7.7mm, 12.7mm or 20mm armament because “the RoF makes up for the damage”, requiring 1-2 seconds on target with either combination of guns.
I’m not really sure where exactly this disussion leads.
7.7mm have decent ballistic properties
12.7mm can be either worse, equal or superior depending on the cartridge used.
20mm cannons are the same, with some having worse ballistic than 7.7s while other (Hispanos) are on par with high velocity 12.7mms.
Light MGs are good as long as the enemy doesn’t have armor.
Heavy MGs, particular the high velocity ones, increase the range while also having better incendiary and armor piercing properties.
20mm cannons have much more hitting power but have often have distinct disadvantages, like worse ballistics, RoF or ammunition capacity.
So while pilot skill plays a big role in delivering the damage, and more ammo, RoF and good ballistics help with that. You still can argue that when being in a position to hit the target, the higher calibers will always cause the most damage to the enemy plane.
The current implementation of 20mm explosive damage with realShatter is that 20mm cannons are always superior because they hit so hard that it doesn’t matter where you hit, the plane will either be destroyed or severly crippled.
One of the reason is that 12.7mm are too effective in WT because they can penetrate pilot armor even at 600m and incendiary chance is just based on luck, with a high volume of fire just making it very likely to set a plane on fire.
Some time ago when 12.7mm explosive rounds were buffed, they hit so hard that it didn’t really matter whether you plane has three 12.7mm with explosive rounds or two 20mm cannons with the Swedish 13.2mm MGs practically beating cannons in efficency.
If the performance of rounds was implemented in a way that makes sense, instead of buffing and nerfing rounds here and there to create artificial balance based on unrealistic behaviour, guns would automatically be balanced based on their real life properties.
Something else that has been bugging me is the modeling of low-explosive ammunition in-game. Standard incendiary rounds like M23 feel incredibly anemic in the game when as shown by the optimism caliber program, they were statistically more likely to kill an aircraft in a single shot than their high explosive counterparts.
As far as I know they only compared 20mm Incendiary to 20mm HEI and 0.60cal API to 0.60 Incendiary. The only 12.7mm round was the M20 API-T.
But it’s a general issue with WT that was never addressed.
Incendiary rounds generally underperform because in most cases they deal pathetic damage while the incendiary properties are at best the same as similiar caliber API rounds. If they have some penetrationa ability, they deal less damage compared to AP rounds to components.
It feels like that Gaijin treats incendiary rounds like Ball or Tracer rounds compared to AP, so a straight downgrade compared to API. It’s no wonder that the default belt for the MG 151/20 contains 50% Incendiary-Tracer ammo, a round that was only developed in 1943 and later adopted for all calibers (-7.92mm), while in-game it’s like the worst round to attack any target.
With realShatter it feels like all 20mm explosive rounds deal pretty much the same damage, regardless of filler, but in general did Gaijin give HE rounds the same incendiary properties as HEI.
So in the past explosive amount was all that mattered, which meant that Mineshells were king in dealing damage to planes while other 20mm explosive rounds would cause minimal damage.
we do however have other .50 caliber MG’s with similar ballistics to compare it to, notably the Russian Berezen UB machine gun. The IAI rounds on the brazen UB significantly outperform the incendiary rounds. based on the data from the test, incendiary rounds should be at LEAST as effective as their high explosive counterparts, particularly against tougher aircraft
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ah sh, here we go again
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I noticed it too. It’s especially noticeable with the severe damage mechanic. It’ll probably be back to crazy high damage when the update arrives, or shortly after. Seems to be the pattern for the last 3 updates or so that damage drops off a cliff one day and then rockets back up just as suddenly.
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Some HE/HEF shells gets fragmentation and some does not. What the hell is going on?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/g4JL0lfAn61E
It looks like guns did not “break” after the update.
Unfortunately MG151/20 still hasn’t changed, even after the report being acknowledged… =(
What are RS weapons? Russian? :D
I saw you write that before but I was still shreding planes with 20mm ShVAK FI-T and Type 99-2 HEF-T belts.
I think it’s just an error in protection analysis.
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