I don’t mind the RCS mechanics being overhauled, it could also help with the iron dome meta of top tier air considering every top tier aircraft is now equipped with an eye of sauron. But as long as we have CAS planes with ordnance that can wipe out the enemy team TWICE in one run without rearming, it’s only fair if a counter existed for it.
You see, I’m not against CAS. I’m against the discrimination against ground players, as per my other post, regarding having a dedicated air only mode but not a dedicated ground only mode regardless of how easy it is to play aircraft, be it an interceptor or CAS.
If we are to rework RCS, then sure, do it, but also bump the spawn cost of anything with guided munition by three times, considering that every engagement with a heli or jet is going to change into a suicide mission for the SPAA.
To address the question, not sure it’s RCS per se? Dumb bombs are also plucked out of the air now with ease by non-radar guns waving vaguely in their direction.
There just seems to be a common variable that the “damage cross section” or hitbox for all munitions is much much larger than their actual size now. And of course all kills on munitions are a kill on any hit of any kind.
BVVD has said this is being done for balance so air isn’t dominant, so it’s clearly deliberate.
So I just don’t think it’s purely a radar problem.
The other indication this is the case is that the same missile launched from a ground vehicle seems to get through to the target more reliably. I’m sure someone could set up a test to check this is the case.
Especially since it hasn’t been a “tank game” at any point in its existence. Never. Not a single day since combined arms mode was a thing. And if they should have named it different, well we could discuss that. Because its been combined arms for 13 years now. I understand that some players dont like cas and surely no one likes getting bombed. But if some players hate getting shot at and bombed that much, then maybe war thunder is not the game for them? Thats what this game is about?
Still with the current player numbers theres nothing that speaks against maybe having a tank only mode as a test for some weeks or something similar? i just think it wouldnt work as well as some people hope and it would get less and less popular over time…Anyways this is more of a discussion of how some insanely strong cas could be balanced no? And there would be lots of possibilities to do so and ideas that could be easily implemented (remove spotting markers and especially chevrons for players that are in the air, make squad markers unavailable while in plane and not show up when your sqadmate puts them somewhere from the ground, make tanks harder to spot from the air etcetc) But people with the muuuh cas bad i got bombed, i want the game to be boring and stale and camp in my one spot to rack up kills easily mentality never come up with possible solutions to their problem thats gonna stay anyways. So sorry not sorry, i cant really take that very seriously
It is an RCS issue. Radars, especially older ones, should only be able to detect something as small as a Hellfire missile from very short range, and their tracking radars should not be able to track them reliably, if at all. These are bird-sized RCS targets that even modern radars can have trouble detecting.
I found it funny how the OSA and 2S6 were usually able to find my stealth Comanche because my Hellfire popped up on their radar from 8 km away, while the helicopter itself did not.
Their proximity fuzes also should not be sensitive enough to detonate on such small targets. If they were, they would be going off every time they passed near a bird or treetop.
It is so blatantly unrealistic how every radar in-game is treated as this fantastically all-seeing system.
I am fairly certain that you heavily underestimate the amount of matches that are determined or at least heavily influenced by this. Sure, at least 50 % of players seemingly just goof around, leave when they get frustrated or after one death with sp left. Sure, lots of matches are decided even with one Team having quite a lot of SP left.
But the really good ones, the long matches which are close, where none of the teams are giving up and both have a good amount of players playing for the win, those are usually decided by which team can keep more players in the game. Especially if the numbers are already down a bit, theres holes in the frontline and one cas plane (and one spaa keeping it in check) have a much more gamedeciding factor. The 20-30% of players that actually know what they are doing and that are gamedeciding will spawn cas if it is a good moment and theres not too much up already, they will spawn a tank suitable for the map on the spawn that has a opportunity to break out of, they will keep spawning and moving back towards the frontline solidifying map control and keeping pressure on the enemy team. Every single one of those strong players that play for the win out of the match bc he/she cant respawn is a huge win for you and your team. How do you get them out of the match the easiest? You deplete their sp pool. How can you quickly do that? shoot two 700 sp ground attackers out of the air in a couple of seconds in spaa (2 x 700: 1400 SP thats like 10 to 12 first spawn tanks) or make sluggish prop cas with insanely heavy and expensive loadouts impossible or at least very dangerous to operate in a fighter. Also: Bombs miss, planes crash. You dont need to be able to kill the plane itself to make operating it effectively much harder.
And if you shoot down someone in an expensive cas plane before he gests anything done, even if you get him on his first attack run and he still gets his bombs/whatever off, hes most likely out of the match.
Probably yes. But also one good positioned spaa can make the life of 2 or 3 uncoordinated cas planes (not fighters with ground belts those are another can of worms) very difficult, disrupt their attack runs and as a general rule, going for the spaa itself instead of someone thats actually holding the map somewhere on the frontline is way more dangerous. Its in large parts a positioning thing. But anyways dying to an spaa in spawn thats maybe spawnprotected, put 0 effort and time to move anywhere, puts 0 pressure on the map even in the cheapest plane is NEVER worth it. The spaa can be respawned for what? 100 sp in a trade. The plane cant.
Fully agree. Especially in light tanks with sp reduction, riskless scouting and drones. Even a cap and an assist, which on lots of maps can easily be achieved by mindless rushing and shooting the track off of one tank is sometimes (especially in uptiers) enough to spawn a very strong cas plane. I got no idea who thought thats a good thing.
Helicopters existed long before ordnance hitboxes were modeled, and the only truly overpowered ones were the Russian helicopters with long-range, fast Vikhrs. Slow Hellfire slingers were never overpowered.
Countering them was simple: keep shooting at them and keep moving. Shooting forces the helicopter to duck behind cover, because Hellfires are SAL-guided and very slow. A SAM would usually kill the helicopter long before the Hellfire reached its target. Constantly moving also makes you much harder to find if the helicopter peeks again to lase, and you can often just drive behind cover.
Currently, all SPAA has to do is click on the incoming Hellfires. The only real counter to that is dumping more than half your missiles into one SPAA, which can then just spawn again with little effort.
I am playing a tank only game, and I’m really glad with how SPAA can destroy aircraft and their munitions very effectively at the moment. If you’re knowingly spawning a heli for ~600SP that you know is worse than a tank at ~200SP you have no one to blame but yourself
And currently all you have to do as a CAS player is spam more munition and land and try again. So what’s your point? At least when SPAAs run out of ammo and the ammo box, they have to risk getting on a cap point to rearm. Your airfield is very far from danger. I’ve been playing this game for many years and I can count the number of times I got killed on the airfield in GRB with one hand.
And one more thing, Unless we are talking about SPAAs with datalinks, like Pantsir or other multi-vehicle SPAAs, you have to disengage the heli or the aircraft to intercept the munition. So “all SPAA has to do is click on the incoming Hellfires” is just not a valid argument. That’s more of a death sentence because you can only engage 1 hellfire at a time with the Tunguska.
What you are suggesting in the first post of this thread is about reducing the RCS of all guided munition, which also includes FnF stuff. You might as well also suggest making SPAAs also cost as much as a nuke plane, if all you want is a comfortable CAS experience.
So you’re sitting in a helicopter you got from just capturing a point, and are crying because people don’t want to die to your missile spam? Wow, CAS mains proving they are the biggest cry babies. Here’s a tip for you: if you don’t want to die to the OSA, just spawn a tank, bro.
You do not need a data link to reliably defeat multiple Hellfires. Engaging several of them one after another is not a “death sentence” because of how slow they are. If the helicopter gets closer than 5 km to reduce time-to-target, the SPAA can simply kill it, since the SPAA missile’s time-to-target is what dictates the engagement. It is clear you do not have much experience playing either helicopters or SPAA.
As for fire-and-forget weapons, it should be the other way around: F&F CAS should be made much more expensive, so it becomes a tool that only someone who has performed really well can use to influence the match. Even then, it should still be possible to mitigate it through maneuvering, moving to cover, smoke, and CAP.
I do not want a “comfortable CAS experience.” I want proper rock-paper-scissors gameplay with coherent and consistently implemented realistic mechanics.
Go play WOT, bro. Either make a coherent point or go cry about a tank only mode somewhere else. God this forum is filled with the most obnoxious people…
Have you ever heard of a phenomenon called “firing more than one hellfire/kh-29/maverick at an SPAA”? It’s quite a fascinating read, you should try it.
It’s clear you’re netiher a good helicopter player or have any of the SPAAs you have issues with based on what I’m seeing on statshark.
Quite ironic you say that when you also say this in the same post:
I do not want a “comfortable CAS experience.”
If this was the opposite and people were complaining about how OP CAS is and SPAAs aren’t good enough, every single CAS main would rush here and say “The game is combined arms, cry about it.”
So you’re getting what you deserve. I recommend a 10mg cope pill every 8 hours.
God forbid I want to use a game feature that exists and is advertised as a functioning part of the game. You are only proving my point by being obnoxious and emotionalizing a discussion about game mechanics, as if features in this game personally hurt you lmao