SuperTEMP is inferior to AIM-7F and AIM-7M as well…
R-27R is inferior to AIM-7F & M by far.
AIM-7F has superior range, extremely similar maneuverability,
R-27R’s direct NATO counterpart is the 530D for France and SuperTEMP.
Neither of these are on Mig-23 though.
R-24R is not a meta missile, it’s good, so is Skyflash, they aren’t the bees knees.
NATO has these missiles at the same BR already.
Just because you don’t know how to use it doesn’t mean that it’s not useful.
The R-60’s main advantage is the much larger area that it can be launched from, which means that people are more likely to straight up not see a launch, or not have time to avoid a short range head on shot.
The numbers on the following Graph haven’t been updated in a long time, but as a rough guide they are generally still accurate for the -9L and R-60M, the R-27 and R-73 have changed significantly.
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In theory, ik its guidance is brain damaged sometimes I’ve been grinding France for a while. Also the shitty seeker just not locking sometimes.
But it’s got more G-pull, Doppler seeker, very good top speed. It’s just slow as balls off the rail so you need some space to fire it.
In terms of BR placement, yeah, but in terms of actual use, I think only the SuperTEMP and R27R are comparable.
R-27R has a very low top-speed, SuperTEMP has less thrust. They’re both best in short range engagements. Super 530 has much more thrust, a much higher top speed, and burns for 10 seconds total with an aggressive sustainer. If you’re using this thing at very short range you aren’t using it right.
Oops, i didn’t saw which post you were answering to.
But anyways → S.530D are currently worse than 7F and by far, maybe will change a bit with the new fixes mades from GAIJIN.
thats quite misleading they have around the same total impulse, just 10kN difference, but the super has much better acceleration and range due to the longer total burn time.
A higher search volume only helps you at slaving the missiles, after it launches it becomes a disadvantage, thats why missiles like the r73 reduce massively the gate of the missile…
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That’s pretty much what I meant. Could’ve worded it better. R-27 has the 10kn more total thrust but shorter burn time and a very low top speed (Pretty sure the max Mach number is a soft speed cap) S-TEMP burns longer but AFAIK accelerates slower than the R-27R but to a substantially higher top speed and thus more range too.
S530D has a higher top speed, slightly more thrust, +5Gs, and is getting a very significant seeker buff so it shouldn’t be so garbage anymore. 7F still beats it in close range but once it has time to accelerate the 530D should beat the 7F in mid to long-range engagements.
I just hope maybe the changes fix the 530F and its worthless seeker that just doesn’t lock sometimes :<
It is computed using area of an Arc; and based off the size of the Gimbal , and lock on range cutoffs, it has nothing to do with the FoV.
It basically represents the space where a potential launch could come from, and thus the defensive pilot needs to continuously scan for a launch, assuming that it is a conserved quantity so a pilot ca only scan so much so quickly, the larger the volume, the less often any particular spot is polled, so the more likely you are to not see a missile launch.
Its much harder to defend from a missile that you don’t see coming, which is why its a somewhat useful comparison.
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The r27 has a total of 10KN of extra impulse, but it doesnt not accelerate faster, not even close.
In one you have a 25 kN burner that weights 250kg and have a larger diameter and in the other side you have a 33kn burner for a missle that weights 200kg… just for a better comparative the r 511 accelerates as fast as the r27…
To a point, IMO search volume is a bad measurement for IR missile performance. It exaggerates long range and high FOVs but doesn’t account for IRCCM, FOVs, etc. Its much better for comparing IRSTs and/or Radars.
Seeker volume isn’t very relevant to this. 9L has much less seeker volume but I can launch it from any angle at 4km away. R60 has much higher seeker volume, but it has constrictive range and gimbal limits. You can’t really pull off the same side-aspect shots a 9L can.
Fair enough, I wasn’t even thinking about mass, just adding up the total impulses
Higher top speed? That means nothing,…
Some people have made some video, from custom setups(thanks to CDK) the 7F stands ahead of the S.530D until it reached 35km of range, which is slightly under the max range of both missiles.
And long range engagements todays means more time for ennemy to react to it.
→ 5G more than 7F,… yes at high speed states, you have 5G more than 7F → also means that it have to accelerate 1st of all.
→ the seeker is currently less useful than 7F, and 7F also will recieve the Buff - as per Devserver Patchnote
" The AIM-7F/M, R-27R/ER, RB.71, Skyflash (all variants), Aspide, R-530F/D missiles are now less prone to switching to a target appearing in the direction different from the direction of the last target."
All Fox-1 are getting those buffs
So it nullifies the point.
Locking is subpar to 7F (30km for S.530D, 40km for 7F)
And maximum range (7F have 100km, vs 40km for S.530D)
Soooooooo,… i’ll keep saying it -->S.530D is UNABLE to beat 7F unless you try to kill within 40km(max range) to 35km (range at which the 7F is going 2nd place)
This thread has gone completely off the rails.
50KM coming
Back on track, here’s why the R-60 despite theoretically having more ‘search volume’ is worse:
Its limited gimbal limit and very limited range means that a side-aspect shot isn’t as likely to connect. The 9L can be launched from further and hit at any angle because it has a wider gimbal and more range to correct its lead. Thus, the 9L can actually come from a much larger area than the R-60M.
Search volume simply doesn’t consider missile performance, only the seeker. You could give the R60 100x the lock range but if the motor and fins can’t get it there it’s totally irrelevant.
Wow wow wow,… 50 km for S.530D,… fine by me → how much buff for 7F btw? +10? +20? And R-27ER? Same?
You show what you want to see, but you compare 2 things, therefore you must show the whole picture for comparison,…
And for R60M, if you’re unable to decoy it effectively, you MUST learn how to decoy any Missiles,… here is a batch of videos that might helps you:
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It is still meaningless, specially the rear aspect values as a r60 will never being able to hit anything over 3 km away let alone 7,4 km which he is using to calculate the spherical sector…
this is the most interesting post i have seen in a long while
It doesnt take the maximun lock angle of the missile either, which on the r60m is limited to 20º half of that from the aim 9L.
Many aircraft don’t have access to the AIM-9L, but the -9D /-G /-H or -9E /-J /-P and as such lose out on a Side and front aspect sectors due to the minimal performance in those zones, and lower available pull.
And basically outside of the F-4 with its access to sparrows, there is no real way to stop an R-60M armed interceptor from closing in missile range below 10.7~11.0 where the MiG-21BIS and MiG-23M reside.
Also it doesn’t consider if the Shooter in question has a positive Closure rate or not since that drastically increases the kinetic range of the missile.
Its useful for a defender to know how quickly they need to scan for a launch, and where to focus on if they are task saturated, since if the polling rate is lower than the time of flight you could miss a launch if timed correctly.
Also for the R-60M the values that were used was 2km (A-A) and 5km(R-A)
That value is erroneous, and has an acknowledged bug report, the AIM-9G / -H / -L /-M’s ASE should be 22.5 degrees.
5km is still way out of range of the r60m so it is still meaningless…, btw the all the aim 9L calculations are completely wrong, so that chart is pointless
it usefulness is pretty much situational which only matters in really porly aimed shots where you dont take into account the guidance delay, too close up shots and poorly lead shots, not to mention that the aim 9L gimball is the same, 45º, so all that advantage that youre claiming of the r60m over the aim 9L is based on a false assumption…
it is still 40º in game so unless they fix it is it twice as large than the r60m
r-60m’s are a non issue for anything that has flares.
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