Uhh… the TAM was made by a german company, lol
Years ago when they first added the IAR.81C.
That statement just doesn’t make sense anymore with the community wanting more Spanish, Brazilian and Portugese vehicles, which definitely belong to the Italian TT. And if some Bulgarian tanks would come to War Thunder, they should definitely go to the Italian TT and add Romanian stuff to Germany, in my opinion.
Germany will most likely receive a Swiss F-18 btw
The upgraded TAMs also found in the tech tree have a bit more too do with Israel actually (upgraded by Israeli company Elbit I believe).
Those arent the German/Argentine made ones?
The TAM-2C and TAM-2CIP were developed and upgraded by Elvis systems. Gaijin made the call the implement the TAM-2C to Germany since the previous TAMs were already there (and Israel didn’t exist as a TT yet).
They were quite significant upgrades that changed the tanks dramatically. At least having the CIP in the Israeli TT would be nice.
Ah, i didnt know those were the upgraded variants
I didn’t either for awhile, until I was confused when I found them in Ofekk’s Full Israeli Ground Tree Potential suggestion: Israel ground forces full potential
He does a better job that I do at explaining why they belong in the Israeli tree (along with the nitty gritty details being summed up for it if you’re interested).
so ignoring that still most of it is german? Just swapping electronics and the add-on armor isn’t really a case to be added to israel. The first tam literally has nothing to do with israel.
See the Amx super. Upgraded by german engineers but in the french tree
Magach? M-51?
3 axis stabilization, TIFCS gunner optics, COPAS commander optics, a new state-of-the-art fully digital FCS, a thermal sleeve for the main cannon, an APU, an all-around vision for the driver, automatic target tracking, laser warning system, fully electric turret and gun traverse mechanisms, automatic FPE, new side skirts, a new BMS, new intercom equipment, and state-of-the-art communications equipment. In addition to all of this, the TAM 2C is also capable of using Israel’s newest 105mm ammunition, including the high-performance M428 SWORD APFSDS (possibly M900 equivalent or even better). And to top it all off, the TAM 2C is also capable of firing the LAHAT ATGM. - source: the almighty Ofekk
That seems like more than enough for Israel to have a claim to it if you ask me…
? these tanks were used by israel? While argentinian vehicle were not
Tbf those are Israeli, and Israeli operated tanks have a designated TT, same goes for Subtree operated vehicles.
yeah and the chassie and turret design is still german while that are just electronics.
Despite that the tam should be in the german tree as long as argentinia is no subtree or full tree. You claimed the normal tam aswell which israel has no connection to and splitting up vehicles doesn’t make sense.
If the tams would be added know they still would end up in the german tree.
The only real claim Germany has is that it uses the Marder chassis and originally developed it, and that’s pretty much it. The turret can be considered Argentine since it was designed for and used by them exclusively as per my understanding (but yes designed by German company yadayada).
The amount of upgrades Elbit introduced to the TAM with the TAM-2C and TAM-2CIP(improved protection) as well as the rumored TAM-2C-A2 in the works, makes it a practically whole new tank with a massive upgrade in capabilities. Israel easily has the biggest role in the improvement of the tank, and easily descends them in their TT.
Not to mention the other rule of implementation that Smin has often stated can be applied:
In the case of a TT lacking certain vehicles with certain capabilities (EX: the Swiss Hunter for the German air tree). Israel not only lacks any light tank at all around top tier (the Namer RCWS-30 downer count, it weighs 62 tons, light tank my ass) but also doesn’t have a single 10.0 tank in the entire Tree. This would be highly beneficial to the tree in more ways then one.
I think there’s no need to discuss this further. In fact, now that they’ve confirmed there won’t be more Argentine vehicles in Germany, it makes the most sense for the TAMs to be in the Israeli tech tree, for several reasons:
Israel needs light vehicles.
The TAM 2C and 2CA2 were Elbit developments that involved removing German technology and replacing it with Israeli technology. There was a complete internal redesign, in addition to new capabilities. The only German part remaining is the engine; everything else is manufactured in Argentina and Israel. The TAM 2IP was a parallel development by IMI, another Israeli company. The TAM S21 (not yet in the game) was the first modernization of the TAM where the Argentine company Champions worked with assistance from Elbit (that same joint project also modernized the SK-105 to the A2 variant, which is currently in the German tech tree, with Israeli technology). By the way, the TAMs use Israeli-origin APDSFS rounds, and the VCLM TAM was also an Israeli development.
Germany has plenty of options to replace the TAMs: the TH-301 is a TAM with a gunner’s NVD and the Marder Medium MBT (105mm), similar to the TAM 2C in capabilities but with better protection and less mobility.
Moreover, Germany still has thousands of light tank options to add, so it shouldn’t be a problem, and Israel could really receive a Chilean/Argentine sub-tree.
Man i am late for this comment but the finnish F18 MLU is the most unique F18C. 27% better engine power which fixes the speed problem, bol CM, and its an export model retrofitted with parts to bring its CAS capabilities back. Also new radar ect ect.
The Finnish one you say? Very nice.
I was simply mentioning that there is a difference with the finnish f18 compared to other C models