The DF105 is justified, but the addition of the P204 PaK to the German tree contributes nothing that wasn’t there already and appears simply to be a bone thrown to some particularly whiny wolves.
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The irony of this devblog being titled “No, give it back” only for the germans to demand it is insane
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It should be premium in both TT
If Gaijin gave P204 PaK to Germany only for a 5cm L/60 gun
Thanks to Rheinmetal,
Challenger 3 and Vickers Mk.7 to German TT can be granted? :/
“No, Give our Rh120 gun and Leopard 2 hull back!”
A Bit more extra explanation from Gaijin about the P204 decision might be juicy
Challenger 3 TD is garbage, you can have it. The fact that Vickers used German components on their tank doesn’t mean you get it.
Staying on topic; was the PaK 38 ever in French or Vichy service? Worth digging around to find a French name for the gun to round off their new vehicle.
I hope it was, I’d love for anything it fly its flag in game.
Ah I think I should’ve written some extra words :|
Sorry if I seemed as DE main. maybe due to bad writing skill.
Regarding AMD35 (Pak38), my thinking is quite mixed, and I am not sure I can describe it well.
- It is french armored car, but armed with German cannon
- Gaijin decided to give them French, German mains got mad about that.
- While Gaijin gave the KwK L/42 version of it as German exclusive one and let French can’t play it.
- So I am quite shocked when Gaijin decided to give them to french only, because, eh Gaijin don’t like Anglo-French. right? so I thought it would be german exclusive one.
- Regarding the current solution (Giving AMD35 to both German and French), I think it is somewhat acceptable. We had same thing before between US-UK about Skink and Cruiser Ram II. maybe boring decision though.
What I meant about Challenger 3 TD was,
If Gaijin decided to give AMD35(PaK38) to German because ‘no other reason than [German used and built cannon] of it’
Then in the same silly theory,
Both Challenger 3 TD and Vickers Mk.7 might also be added to german ones too :/
- Challenger 3’s gun is the one from Germany, and we are co-operating with Rheinmetal. right?
- also, we all know Vickers Mk.7 used components from the leopard. :|
Nah, I am fine with Chall3 TD on UK TT, as long as I bought Challenger DS before.
No need for extra challenger 3 on other nation TT for now, I guess.
If Germans also have Chall3 on their TT, too(which I don’t want to see), maybe then I might need to buy some high-rank german premium tanks. :/
Then back to topic,
I would be great if Gaijin could provide some more detailed post about the decision and the reason for sharing AMD 35(5cm L/60) between both Germans and French, as extra.
no, the other Panhard has nothing to do with Vichy, that one is 1940 prototype
Please forgive my defensive reply, I think we haven’t spoken before and I’ve recently read what feels like a lot of demanding posts from German mains.
AMD.35 (PaK 38) was suggested by Caid for France, and would have made a unique if otherwise unremarkable Premium vehicle if not for the complaints it has generated. German mains, while already having Puma and a tree bloated with foreign equipment, seem intent to deprive the French TT of a unique variant of a vehicle of French origin.
Gaijin rightly reserves the right to make decisions a out what vehicle goes where, and while players can advocate for a vehicle to be shared they should in no way expect it, and I am rather disappointed in the rapid decision to share the AMD Pak38. It would be good to see on what basis the decision was made.
Regards the Challenger 3 TD, I can only assume it is some kind of TT placeholder because it is so substandard when compared to similar vehicles. I hope that details will be added as more information is released about the real vehicle, but that’s a subject for the CR3 D&D thread.
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The designer of the 1940 prototype made 20 more very similar 47mm turrets for Vichy, hidden from the Germans for years.
“Engineer J. Restany, using the false name “J-J. Ramon”, from April 1941 clandestinely produced 45 new turrets, fitted with a 47 mm SA 35 (about twenty) or a 25 mm gun in order to equip an equal number of hulls hidden from the Germans; some were eventually combined with the hulls for trial purposes. The turrets were of a new design but strongly resembled Restany’s 47 mm turret of June 1940” (the prototype you mentioned)
from Wikipedia. For game purposes they’d be functionally identical.
Among other locations (link):
“Several photos show the vehicles used by the Sicherungs-Aufklärung-Abteilung 1000, a reconnaissance group of the 189. Reserve Infanterie-Division. A single company, designated as Panzer Späh Kompanie, is known to have used Panhard armored cars. One vehicle has been clearly identified, the “Jaguar”, 3rd vehicle of the 1st platoon of Sicherungs-Regiment 1000’s 14th company (the Panzer Späh Kompagnie), whilst another German Panhard 178 CDM is known to have had the name of “Hagen””
All the pictures we have of the German 50mm Panhards appear to be from this same unit. The Panhard unit was cut over to Kurt van Jesser’s kampfgruppen (Brigade Jesser, aka the 74th Brigade) when the Maquis uprising started around Mont Mouchet right after D-Day. See French wikipedia (link). They were basically Jesser’s only armour, and the commander of the flying column Jesser put the Panhards in, Oberst Georg Coqui, was a notorious unavenged war criminal (link).
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Go ahead they are trash lmfao
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While CaID wrote in his suggestion that the AMD upgrades were carried out by Vichy France for their own use, Bruce_R1 now tells me that while it was French factories that produced the vehicles, the intention was always for German service, making it logical that Germany would recieve one in-game.
I assure you, most German mains are not out to “deprive the French TT of unique vehicles”, it just so happened that players of both nations have become hung up on the same vehicle, and so Gaijin added it to both countries to put these arguments to rest.
Anyone who is complaining about France getting the DF105, however, is likely either one of the gatekeeping German mains you speak of, or a tech tree purist who can’t understand that copy paste is justified when a vehicle happens to be jointly developed between multiple countries.
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I feel like most of the german mains like to gatekeep.
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That’s just the vocal minority, as keep in mind that WW2 Germany is heavily romanticized across the internet. As a direct result, you tend get a lot more, shall I say, “fanatics” who play Germany and argue for it in every conceivable way, even when they’re objectively wrong.
If you spend any amount of time on the forums, you’ll find many of the more casual German mains who aren’t afraid to admit that they don’t need X vehicle or actually understands the problems that X nation has in contrast to their own.
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My objection would be not that it was “jointly developed,” if only a gun and maybe a radio needs to be from another country to make it eligible for that tree, fine, Gaijin’s game their rules.
I do think it’s a little concerning that we now have not one but two German vehicles, including a tech tree one coming, that, it is not too much of a simplification to say, were essentially only ever used in war for rounding up and executing French civilians, after being built for that purpose by French forced labor. It just seems a little hypocritical to say you won’t put in SS or SD logos or German avatars in the game when you’re doing that. And to be pushed to do so by complaining German mains is… kinda ick, tbh. (But I hear Germany is supposed to stop feeling so much war guilt now, so maybe it’s just Gaijin rolling with the times.) Just not sure we needed two whole vehicles commemorating the single German unit that used them, whose biggest battle honors were “the week of terror in Bourg-Lastic” and the “fierce repression of the Creuse.” (link) But yeah, that’s where we are now, I guess.
German mains are the biggest gatekeepers there is what on earth are you talking about
Anyone can gatekeep, it’s really not exclusive to German mains, and in my time on the forums, Youtube, and Reddit, I will say that I also see a lot of similar behavior coming from British mains.
To say that German mains are the biggest gatekeepers is either a huge generalization of the vocal minority I mentioned, or a sign that you tend to spend a lot of time around this minority or in their echo chambers such as Discord servers.
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I keep away from typical WT discord servers as they tend to be full of toxic german and American mains who suck to play with. This forum is where the core playerbase shows its sentiment and its quite often gatekept by the german mains especially when it comes to export and captured vehicles
@Bruce_R1
I think you’re just looking too hard into it. Whether or not you want to see this vehicle as a symbol of the unit that operated it is subjective, but in reality the vehicle in of itself is not a symbol of warcrimes, and so I don’t see the issue with it being added nor how the people campaigning for it in the German tree have any adverse intentions.
If insignia or in-game memorabilia of the Jesser Brigade were present, I could see the concerns there, but a majority of people just see the P204(f) KwK as just another fun gimmick.
I was referring to the DF105 here.