5 cm PaK 38 L/60 auf P 204(f). Tank destroyer of the occupation

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caid’s suggestion #81

I would like to make an interesting and odd suggestion for France, the 5 cm PaK 38 L/60 auf P 204(f). a french Pakpuma


I propose this vehicle for France and not for Germany. the reason is simple, despite being built by the german, it was using a French vehicle, and in services in the occupied territory of France where a lot of the German units were using French collaborators and the only vehicles that were known ended up in the hand of the FFI which was the french sleeping army that took arms against the German as soon the wind had turn. knowing that outside having designed the vehicles, the Germans used it very little while the French did use it, I would say this would be better in the French TT and not in the German. (and the german have other and better option similar to this)

the Panzerspahwagen P. 204(f) mit 5cm kwk 38 L/60 was an up-gunned version of the AMD 35 which was a very appreciated armoured car used by France during WW2. the Germans liked the AMD 35 as much as the French did, this is why they used the captured AMD 35 under the name of Panzerspahwagen P. 204(f) after the surrender of France. The captured vehicles were usually used without major modification for the occupation of the captured territory but also in the eastern front against the Russians as reconnaissance vehicles.

knowing the allied may land in mainland Europe at any time, the Vichy France, a puppet state of Germany, had decided to equip the Panzerspahwagen P. 204(f) with the 50mm pak 38 L/60 in order to have the capacity to fight the Allied tanks. but this was for nothing, as the FFI had captured the Panzerspahwagen P. 204(f) mit 5cm pak 38 L/60 and used it against the Germans. in 1944 the Panzerspahwagen P. 204(f) mit 5cm kwk 38 L/60 was used by the Besnier’s Squadron which was famous for using the Captured German material.


the main armament is a German 50mm pak 38 L/60, this armoured car will feature some decent firepower against the armoured targets. the gun would be rather effective against most targets from rank 1 to rank 3. With a decent fire rate, good accuracy and the use of APHE rounds, the firepower will not lack. the turret reotation limit is unknown but it is possible it could turn on 360° and the elevation is also unknown. The ammo load is another unknown thing. overall a lot of information is missing, but if they are missing, it remains that it is likely to be enough for the game’s purpose. the secondary armament includes an MG32 or MG34 mounted on the top of the turret for close defence.

a coaxial 7.5mm LMG is also placed next to the gun.

the P. 204(f) mit 5cm’s weight is unknown, it may stay around the same weight as the AMD 35. Until the real weight is found, I propose to use 8.2 tonnes as a placeholder. the engine provides 115 hp which gives the vehicle a power/weight of 14.02 hp/ton. the armoured car reaches 80 km/h on the road and 40 km/h offroad which makes it a pretty mobile vehicle. it features a 4-speed gearbox with a Reverse converter which allows it to go as fast backwards than forward making it particularly nimble.

the turret armour is unknown but can be 14.5mm which is the usual thickness for a similar modification made by the Germans, the hull is unchanged from the AMD 35 which offers a decent protection of 15mm all around and 20-26mm on the front. this armour level can decently protect the vehicles against the different armament, including the 12.7mm at some distance. the crew of 5 men is pretty good.





There already exists a similar vehicle as an event premium for the Germans, so this definitely belongs in the hands of the French. +1


Then, when will you do the german suggestion.

I see no need for a duplicate vehicle in the German tree.

+1 for French Premium. Interesting to see a Vichy vehicle and correct to include it in the French tree. Would be better to use French terminology where possible eg. AMD.35 (Pak38).

currently, i do not think i will do this one for Germany.

it’s not based on Bias, it’s for serial reasons which are sometimes questionable but I will still expose them

  • I can’t find a picture of this vehicle in German services
  • the Germans have other and better vehicles
  • France does not have that many good option at this rank
  • I do not want to get more duplicate vehicles than nessessairy in the game

however, there is a few related vehicle that would be great for Germany. one of which is already in the game


47mm SA 35

45 mm 20-K

50 mm Kwk L42


The last one was already added to germany in an event 6-8 months ago though

The French also put the same gun on the chassis of the truck

And the PaK 97/38 cannon is also on the chassis of the truck


yes, i believe i mentioned one was already in the game

2 more Pics about that:(Click to show)



I still think this should have been added to France, it should still be able to be added to France. As Vichy France used this, which is still France even if they were functionally a puppet.

This isnt even in the game yet. What is in game is the 100% german build KwK 38 version that predates this.

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