Pz.Kpf.Wg. M3 747 (a)

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I would like to suggest the M3 Lee as captured by the german army.
it would offer a new and different playstyle to the german premium (or event) tree and give a more unique M3 Lee variant to the game, as it uses german ammo and is one of the later ones with the 75mm M3 cannon instead of the currently in game M2 cannon. It also shows the need of the german army to use captured Beutepanzer and Beutematerial to fill their own gaps.

The History to the vehicle is unknow, however the German army used, reused and modified everything they got into their hads to fill their own holes.

Pictures: (Click to show)


Originally after slower tank development of the USA and the main Medium tank beeing the M2 Medium with a 37mm Gun in a 1 Man turret and 360° Mgs, it was seen as outdated after the developments in Europ and the start of WW2, and the requirement for a bigger Medium tank, with more armor to withstand the 3,7 cm Pak L/45 as well as with a 75mm gun was made. The Goverment was also happy with simply a casemate 75mm gun like the StuG III, but the Army also wanted to keep a 37mm gun in a Turret, overall the Vehicle was more seen as a Placeholder until the development of the M4 Medium was finished, which had the 75mm gun in the turret.

They were encountered as well as the Grand, on both the West and East front.

The German army produced their own ammo for lots of different guns and refitted and reused casings for the captured guns, from 15mm over 37mm, 47mm 75mm and 76mm of different nations.
Be it German Mg 151/15 projectiles in 15mm Besa, Czeck 37mm ammo in french and american guns, Czeck, Yugoslavian and Austrian ammo in 47mm guns, simple refittet 75mm rounds in other cannons (which was also the other way around earlyer in the war when M61 wasnt yet available and american units refitted captured K.Gr. Rot Pz for their M3 Lees) and 76mm made ammo for russian, british and american guns.

While captured ammo would also be used, later in war when the tides turned, own production ammo would be more available and i will only mention game play wise interesting ammo.
2x 7,62mm Mgs
37mm M5 gun:
Stabilized, -7° to + 60° Elevation (So can be also used as AA with the Sprgr. 40) 2,9 Sec reload.

Ammo: (Click the names to show)

Pzgr. 34 (t) (Apc, without tracer) 0,85 kg 0,013 kg Pent (0,0221 kg TnTa) 885 m/s 80mm/10m

Screenshot 2024-02-02 133311

Pzgr. (t) umg (Apc, with tracer) 0,82 kg 0,013 kg Pent (0,0221 kg TnTa) 890 m/s 79mm/10m


Pzgr. 40 (Apcr) 0,368 kg 15x58mm 150g 1050 m/s 89mm/10m


Sprgr. 40 (He) 0,665 kg 0,045 kg Pent (0,0765 kg TnTa) 850 m/s


75mm M3 gun:
Stabilized, -9° to +20° Elevation, +/-15° Traverse, 4,8 Sec reload.

K.Gr. Pz. (p) APCBC 6,8 kg 80 g Fp.02 und Np.10 (102,4g TnTa) 618 m/s 102mm/10m


Gr. 38 Hl/C HEAT 4,8 kg 515 g H.10 (875,5g TnTa) 450 m/s 115mm/10m


Sprgr. 34 HE 5,74 kg 686g Fp.02 und Np.10 (878,08g TnTa) 550 m/s


The Vehicle:

Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 38.1 mm (54°) Front Glacis
50.8 mm (15-55°) Transmission area
50.8 mm (29°) Driver port
38.1 mm (0-57°) Hull gun mount 38.1 mm (0-22°) Top
38.1 mm Bottom 38.1 mm (1-14°) Top
38.1 mm (15-53°) Bottom 12.7 mm
Turret 50.8 mm (11-65°) Turret front
38.1 mm (1-82°) Gun mantlet 50.8 mm (0-66°) 50.8 mm (1-54°) 22.2 mm
Cupola 50.8 mm (25°) 50.8 mm (cylindrical) 50.8 mm
Engine: 400 Hp
Weight: 27,7 ton
Speed: 39 / 6 Km/h
Crew: 6

Geschossringbuch I
Manual of the M3 Lee
Warthunder Wiki M3 Lee


This would be especially cool because of the domestic ammunition. Now, whether or not Gaijin would actually GIVE it the domestic ammo is another issue entirely. +1

1 Like

Idk, we can only hope, but cince i allready made a report for the German T 34 missing german ammo and there hasnt been any changes… idk.


The Finnish T-34 should also have domestic ammo AND a muzzle brake, among several other more minor changes…


That would certainly make it more unique.


As i said with your other post, i find it extremely unlikely any of this ammunition was used, The 37 mm shells here are 100% intended for use in the Pz 38(t) series and you list no evidence of them being used in the M3.
(more detail found on the other post)