PT PINDAD AMX-13/105 Retrofit (Yonkav 2) - Indonesia's modernization program for the aging AMX-13 fleet

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1
[Would you like to see the AMX-13/105 Retrofit (Yonkav 2) in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
If you want to see this in-game, which version of the armor do you want to be implemented?
  • with the side skirts and add-on applique armor on the turret
  • without the side skirts and add-on applique armor on the turret
  • with just the side skirts
  • with just the add-on applique armor on the turret
  • i voted no
0 voters

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AMX-13/105 Retrofit

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Hello everyone! Today I would like to suggest the AMX-13/105 Retrofit by PT. PINDAD for the Indonesian Armed Forces. This suggestion is primarily to complement and add further information for the Indonesian Ground Vehicles suggestion by Yontzee and the original AMX-13/105 (Yonkav 2) Suggestion on the old forum by Blakir, where it was originally suggested. However, this suggestion is not the same as the one on the old forum, as I’m making it entirely from scratch with more information.

Often called Yonkav 2 tank, the AMX-13/105 Retrofit was a retrofit program completed in around 2013/14 to modernize Indonesia’s fleet of AMX-13s, featuring an extended hull with a reworked frontal glacis to accommodate a new diesel engine, transmission, torsion bar suspension. An updated fire control system with laser range finder and thermals, a new 105mm CN-105-G1 which can fire APFSDS, fitted on a Steyr JT-1 turret (the same as the SK-105A2). The only original parts left of the AMX-13 are the rear part of the hull and the roadwheels.

Indonesia has around 300 already retrofitted AMX-13s SM1 (Singapore Modernised 1) standard, which was upgraded in 1995. But, considering the expensive prices of newer light tanks, the Indonesian army decided that it would be cheaper to retrofit these AMX-13s again than to buy an entirely new tanks. PT PINDAD, arguably Indonesia’s most successful military Defense company, was tasked with the modernization program. The retrofit plan was originally started in 2011, but only begun in actuality in 2013, with it being finished and 13 units were delivered in October of 2014.

Retrofit's plans (modifications and changes)

Its very hard to get an actual concrete source for some of the specifications, as this is just one version of the AMX-13 retrofits carried out by the Indonesians, with some sources mistakenly took specifications from the other versions instead. Additionally the vehicle is somewhat recent, with only 30 tanks retrofitted (both the AMX-13 and the VCI variant), so the manufacturer haven’t published any information regarding this (AFAIK). There’s quite a few speculations that I must perform, but I’ll try to include as much factual information as possible. Of course, I might not be 100% correct on everything, so if you do have any corrections, feel free to mention them

Why is it called the Yonkav 2?

The tank is often called Yonkav 2 because that’s the name of the cavalry battalion that uses the tank, Batalyon Kavaleri 2/Turangga Ceta (Cavalry Battalion 2 in English). Turangga Ceta is Javanese which means white horse

Now, this battalion has another name which might be the origin of the unofficial tank name :

Batalyon Kavaleri 2/Tank

The tank there, is part of the battalion’s name, rather than a designation for a vehicle. Its likely that people mistake the name of battalion for the name of the tank. The yonkav 2 name sticks, as it continues to be the unofficial name used. Other sources do mention the tank only as AMX-13/105 Retrofit without an actual name of the Battalion.

Indonesia operated three different versions of the retrofitted AMX-13s:

AMX-13/75 Modèle (Mle) 51 (SM1)

AMX-13/105 Modèle (Mle) 58 (SM1) (Standard hull, CN-105-57 or CN-105-G1 gun mounted on FL-12 turret)

PINDAD AMX-13/105 Retrofit (Reworked hull, JT-1 turret, CN-105-G1 gun)

For this suggestion, I am specifically suggesting PINDAD’s 2014 version with the reworked hull. Some of the Mle 58 has the upgraded cannon and engine, but the PINDAD’s version has a more unique hull, with only the rear part being stock, and a different turret, which I think would be a better implementation than a standard AMX-13 hull.

The tank has three different armor modules, one with appliqué armor array and side skirts, one just with the side skirts, and one without both

With both

Only with the side skirts

Without both

The issue is that on most footage of the tank, they have none of the added armor or side skirts. The added armor was shown on Indo Defence 2014, which as an arms and defence technology Expo. Personally, I think the add-on armor was made specifically for the showcase on the Expo, with the latter versions removing the armor and side-skirts. The added armor can be helpful but exact details about it (such as the armor thickness) is not known.

A. Background

Details

Indonesia’s AMX-13s were originally obtained for the Indonesian Army between 1960-65 as part of president Sukarno’s army buildup for the annexation of West Irian. Indonesia obtained a total of 57 AMX-13/75 Mle 51 along with other variants from the French. They serve as the main tank of the TNI’s Armored Cavalry Tank Battalion (Referred to as Yonkavs from Battalyon Kavaleri). Further AMX-13 were obtained from the Dutch in what’s known as Project Beta, which lasted from 1976-83. The transfer included around 600 APCs and included about 130 AMX-13/105 Mle 58.

These AMXs were later upgraded in 1995 at Bengpuspalad Central Equipment Workshop to bring them up to Singaporean SM1 standard but without the upgraded gunner’s sight. The total amount is unknown, but around 2016, there were 400 AMX-13s of all variants in Indonesia.

IN 2011, PT PINDAD was contracted to modernize Indonesia’s AMX-13/105 Mle 58s as part of Indonesia’s strategy of defence self-reliance. Though the project began in 2011, the actual modification only started in 2013, with the first prototype completed in early 2014. The tank was subjected to mobility and firing trials in April 2014 with a High-Explosive and APFSDS. The first 13 production conversion were delivered to Yonkav 2/Tank (or Turangga Ceta) Cavalry Battalion on 7 October 2014, just in time to be paraded on the Indonesian Armed Forces 69th Anniversary along with other armored vehicles.

B. Specifications

Details
General Specifications

Changes on the hull

  • For the hull, the changed parts are the engine cover and a reworked upper frontal glacis at an angle of 15° (degrees), while the angle of the lower glacis is unknown, it seems to be around ≈50-70°, but could be more, as the angles on the pictures are quite deceptive

Terminology : CHA = Cast Homogenous Armor | RHA = Rolled Homogenous Armor

Hull Armor

  • Though exact armor values are unknown, The basis is the AMX-13 chassis, so the armor thickness can be presumed as the same, or at least similar to the base AMX-13/105 Mle 58.
    • All hull parts are RHA
    • 20mm side
    • 15mm back
    • 10mm roof
    • 5mm RHA liners inside the hull
  • There are some images of the thickness of the front glacis, so based on the images, I speculate that it might have
    • 20mm upper glacis (?) at 15°
    • 20-40mm lower glacis (?) at ≈50-70° (?)

Turret Armor

  • Turret armor is the same as the JT-1 turret found on the SK-105A2
    • CHA on the front-face and the entire lower part of the turret, as well as the gun mantlet, while the rest of the upper part is RHA (sides, back, roof, under ammo)
    • 20-40mm front
    • 40mm mantlet
    • 20-40mm side
    • 10-20mm rear
    • 10mm roof and under
  • The add-on applique armor effectiveness is unfortunately unknown

Cupola Armor

  • CHA on the Cupola
  • 10-20mm surrounding the entire part

Engines
there are two different upgraded engines from the SM1 version mentioned by sources, though its mentioned that the tank can go up to 60-70kmph (37-46 mph)

  1. Navistar 400hp turbo diesel engine (exact model is unknown, likely to be some versions of the maxxforce engine, as one source mentioned that the engines has stopped being produced)

  2. Cummins 375hp diesel engine with an automatic allison transmission (this report mentions an automatic transmission as well)

  • Transmission doesn’t seem to be upgraded from the SM1, so its most likely the automatic ZF 5WG-180 transmission, with 5 forward gear and 2 in reverse

Characteristics:

  • Extended front hull by about 20cm

  • Indra Sistemas’ Amazon UC Fire control system (laser range finder, thermals, and day camera) on the box above the first stage ammo stowage. The driver is also provided with a thermal camera.

  • unknown Zoom on the optics

Sources mentioned that the FCS is SOPTAC-18 by Sopelem, but from my findings, Indra Sistemas' FCS seems to be one actually fitted on the tank, as the company themselves specifically said this


Has day camera and thermal camera, it uses last gen design, with only 640 x 480 pixels of image resolution. Both camera uses the same monitor, the gunner along with the commander have access to the same two types of camera, as they both each have a monitor display

  • weight: 14 tons
  • length: 6.56 meters.
  • Width: 2.5 meters.
  • height: 2.35 meters.
  • Crew : 3 (gunner, driver, commander)

Armaments

  • Main Armament : 105mm CN-105-G1 cannon
  • Turret : Steyr JT-1 Turret (same as the SK-105A2 in game)
    • Commander can fire gun
    • No stabilizers (AFAIK)
    • Horizontal traverse = 360°
    • Vertical Traverse = -6°/+13°
    • 4 second reload
    • automatic loading
    • 12-rounds first stage ammo
    • possibly around 30 total ammo
    • 12x 75mm smoke grenade (3 on each side of the turret)
images

  • Secondary Armament :
    Coaxial: 1x AAT-F1 (AA-52) 7.62×51mm GPMG
    Pintle Mount: 7.62mm M60 or PINDAD SM2-V2 machine gun (the SM2-V2 is a vehicle-mounted variant of the SM2-V1 machine gun, which itself is a license production of the FN MAG)
image

Ammunitions

  • OFL 105 G1 APFSDS(most sources mention them as OCC 105 G1 as the APFSDS, but I from the image I assume this is just a misidentification)
    • Projectile Mass = 3.41kg
    • Muzzle Velocity = 1475 m/s
    • The APFSDS can penetrate 250mm of Rolled Homogeneous Armor at an angle of 30° from a distance of 1km
Image of the APFSDS

  • 105 MM MLE 57 HE-TNT / RDX (HE-COMP B) made by Hirtenberger Defence
    • Muzzle Velocity = 700 m/s
    • Max. Gas Pressure = 240 MPa
    • Weight/Mass = 19kg
    • Explosive Mass = unknown, could be more than 2kg (?) of TNT equivalent
How to tell the difference between the versions of the AMX-13/105

PINDAD’s AMX-13/105 Retrofit

The one in the images are the 2014 PINDAD hull with a CN-105-G1, you can tell this version by:

  1. smooth front hull and a double headlight housing
  2. no bustle rack on the side of the turret and a small box shape on the back of the turret top (the box is the key feature to notice, as the older Mle 58 AMXs often have the bustle rack removed as well)
  3. CN-105-57 turret has the square double muzzle break, whereas the CN-105-G1 has one circular shape, the G1’s barrel are also thicker near the mount with a gap to fit a gun travel lock (The 105-57 is has no noticeable gap)

This is the AMX-13/105 Mle 58 (SM1)

C. More Images

Details
Profile

Front

Top

Left Side

Right Side

Back

Text on the side

Crew Compartment

Driver

Commander

No gunner images

Footage of the tank

Rare footage of the tank in trials at the factory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Yl3UUEzEg
360° close inspection of the tank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3rVxwyzdV4
HD video of the tank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t36BvcTq590
Footage of the tank firing at targets along with scorpions and AMX-13/105 Mle58 (multiple angles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpLZP2T7nE
Footage of the tank crews at around 4:30 (with inside compartments)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yaSeAMC_GQ
Footage of the turret rotation and full braking at around 1:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlaVQndsYK4

Random Images


AMX-13/105 retrofit on the left

D. Sources

Details

Any suggestions or corrections would be highly appreciated!

Additionally, you can check out more Indonesian suggestions below!

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13 Likes
2

+1 As a indonesian i like to see this tank in the game (o＾▽＾o)

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3

Side skirts and applique armor should be a researchable modification, with the option to remove them for reduced weight (or if you just prefer the look without them).

6 Likes
4

A +1 from me, more AMX 13s are always a plus

1 Like
5

Got some new info on the tank

Image of the coaxial gun on the 105 Retrofit (AAT-F1 GPMG)

French AA-52 Machine gun, designated as the AAT-F1. This 7,62×51mm GPMG is seen being mounted coaxially on the tank

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Images of the Gunner's compartment


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Updated Footage of the Tank Firing (since original video was deleted)

And since the video of the firing is gone here’s newer (relatively-speaking) footage of the tank firing its canon

Autoloader (seemingly manually loaded into the chamber?)

Firing

Possible image of the engine (can anyone help ID-ing?)

Additionally I’ve found some footage of the engine used in the Yonkav 2’s AMX-13, however it’s unknown whether this is for the Retrofit or for the standard 75mm Mle 51 (SM1) or even the AMX VCI

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Can anyone ID this engine?

Source(s)

Video sources:

MENEMBAK SENJATA RANPUR YONKAV 2/TC (ARMORED VEHICLE WEAPON FIRING YONKAV 2/TC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Xgifo_vnE
KUNJUNGAN TIM DISLAIKAD (DISLAIKAD TEAM’S VISIT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoVB8HfRAEA

GPMG Source: AAT-F1 Korps Marinir: Senapan Mesin Handal, Sukses Lepaskan 5 Ribu Butir Munisi Tanpa Masalah

4 Likes
6

+1 looks neat

1 Like
7

found something interesting about this specific variant:



Now I (and many others) originally thought that this was a Domestic retrofit (Kind of like a precursor to the Yonkav 2), but after further reading I dont think that is the case anymore.

Those photos were originally uploaded by the Cavalry Weapons Center roughly around early 2011s. Now, the source is entirely lost to time (even waybackmachine couldn’t get the original images up), but there are defence news aggregators which thankfully has the images saved and it being readily available:

What originally confused me was that this thing, in 2011, is clearly already retroffited and is being actively driven around by the Cavalry. But 2011 is when the Yonkav 2 contract was given to PT PINDAD, and as I’ve mentioned in the background of the original post, the actual PINDAD-Made retrofit only started proper in 2013. So that got me thinking is the source for the year is wrong? Or Is this really the precursor or is it something else entirely?

That leads me to this very interesting article:

Its a paid article, but I was extremely lucky that the article was free for me since it was a trial, so I can read this one article in its entirety.

The writer of the article is working on repairing his AMX-13s when he stumbled upon a tank which looks virtually identical to the 2011 version, but in Europe. Same paint scheme & everything. The thing sat in a storage facility alongside a Gepard, Leopard, M113, and a SK-105

The vehicle shows clear signs that it’s a modified AMX-13. It uses the Type-2 chassis, its engine is a Detroit twostroke diesel water-cooled 6V53 with an automatic transmission, giving it 400hp (different from the standard AMX-13 SOFAM engine). It has an FL-12 turret as well as a CN-105 G1 105mm cannon with Markings in German (seems to be taken from a SK-105). The box on the side can apparently hold a night sight & laser range finder but that doesn’t seem to be fitted when the vehicle was in Indonesia

Now the key question: is it an Indonesian Tank?

Short answer: No. Long answer: apparently its origin was traced from its hull number & French markings that it has. The tank is originally part of the batch sold to the Dominican Republic in 1960 and was returned to Europe in the 80s. The electrics inside the tank were marked in English with Union Jacks everywhere, and inside the tank there are also Asian (presumed Indonesian) sweet wrappers & a foil wrapper written “Do Not Open” in Indonesian on the gun breech.

The author concluded that the tank was originally had been prepared for Indonesian use, though he thought it was for the 1990s upgrade program which is an entirely separate thing. He mentions that the canvas areas around the turret is in poor condition, could be from long-term storage either in Indonesia or Europe.

So in summary, yes its a modified AMX-13, yes it has similar equipment to the Yonkav 2, but no it wasn’t made by PINDAD. It’s only tested here and I assume they brought that in to as a baseline for the retrofit program

We now know its components and its fate, but What is not explained is how it got to Indonesia in the first place, who sent it, which company created it, etc.

So yeah if anyone has more info about this vehicle feel free to mention them!

7 Likes
8

So what’re you trying to say? Is it a domestic upgrade with import components? foreign upgrade package? Or a factory build tank?

9

From outside, since its originally belongs to the Dominican Republic and then sent back to Europe in the 80s. There is no way we could’ve retrofitted it since the program hasnt even started yet by the time the vehicle appears.

effectively the vehicle is a trialed vehicle of sorts. It could be related, the retrofit program could’ve took some inspiration from the vehicle, but who knows, there isnt any information of who brought it to Indonesia, what did the Cavalry did with it, etc. For all we know they couldve just brought that in to showcase to the top brass how the retrofit could’ve looked like, or it could be an entirely different thing alltogether.

But I think its important to mention that fact so that people doesn’t regurgitate the idea that its the same vehicle.

2 Likes
10

Ah so it was already retrofitted and Indonesian army bought it…? Instead of retrofitting their old AMX?

11

Before retrofitting their old AMX-13s, that was still an Indonesian development

12

Indonesia basically has a lot of different amx-13 versions

this is just talking about the cannon equipped ones:

  • AMX Mk61 (Technically AMX-13 but im not counting it)
  • AMX-13/75 Mle 51
  • AMX-13/105-57 Mle 58

these two were then retrofitted domestically which became

  • AMX-13/75 Mle 51 (SM1)
  • AMX-13/105-57 Mle 58 (SM1)

Then came the AMX-13/Retrofit which Ive mentioned a few post above this, which is not a Domestic modification, only trialed and pressumed to be the basis for the Yonkav 2

  • AMX-13/Retrofit

PINDAD then worked on the vehicle in this suggestion, Yonkav 2, with similar specs to the AMX-13/retrofit. This is a domestic upgrade

  • AMX-13/105 Retrofit (Yonkav 2)

Now at some point some of the Mle 58 (which was already retroffited to the SM1 standard) has its cannon changed from the CN105-57 to the CN-105G1. These are mostly used by the 10th Cavalry Battalion

  • AMX-13/105-G1 Mle 58 (SM1)

There are also talks of modernizing the old AMX-13s SM1 which hasnt received a new retrofit with Turkey. But still in early stages

  • AMX-13 Modernized (TR)

So thats around 7 different variants (+1 future)

6 Likes