No, H-Pzgr. is only available for High velocity guns, in this case the 15mm barrel.
52g 1050m/s 9,5 mm Tungsten Steel core.
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just switching the barrel was enough to interchange the 15x96mm and 20x82mm ammo.
Could link any source i think it would really help solidify this proposition.
Tho it feels counter intuitive that just changing the barrel works, doesn’t the chamber to need some adjustment, or are the cartridge the same size?
Here the 03.1942 Manual.
Exchanging only the barrel is possible, as it was specifically desinged that way, as overall the ammo has the same dimension. Page 15. States the Mg 151 can be exchanged by simply switching the barrels from 15 to 20mm barrels and the other way around.
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Thank you very much.
I think if this suggestion is accepted, it should just be available as a modification, like the way some 109 can swap between the 151/20 or the mk108 in the nose, I think all fighter (at least) should be able to do the same. I would massively increase the lethality, especially in those scenario where you are about to get a shoot but can’t pull the lead required to hit with the 151/20.
Or when chasing an enemy, you would actually be able to hit beyond 600m at someone running away.
This isnt a suggestion.
Well, first do you think this manual is enough to make a suggestion and second how could I make one?
I already made some suggestions here (in the appropiate section) and on the bug report website.
This manual alone isnt enough.
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Whilst i appreciate your efforts a short reminder:
- You ask gaijin for a workaround for a problem created by gaijin itself.
- Nobody asked for a ballistic update, nobody asked for real shatter 1.0 - 3.0 and it is unclear why this weapon got a “special” treatment by gaijin.
I other words:
Gaijin decided to implement functionalities which look like “inspired by reality” in game modes with pure fantasy settings. I mean g-loads of air frames and pilots are just the most obvious - allowing combat ranges up to 2.5 km (0.50 cals) thanks to mouse aim and hand holding of MnK players with artificial stabilization makes this problem (aka as Mg 151/20 nerf) just clear visible.
In any case: Have a good one!
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You ask gaijin for a workaround for a problem created by gaijin itself.
At the end of the day, you have to play the card you have. We can’t really make any bug report because we would need:
- A tangible proof without data mine that the 151/20 suffer from excessive drag. And the game just doesn’t expose this data, everything is “by feel”
- Some first hand source about the ballistic of the 151/20 and with enough data such that we can make comparison with the game simulation.
Gaijin can fill blank however they want. We have to play those rules.
Also, apart from the problem “created” by gaijin I still think it would be a fun and unique addition, being able to select between high damage (in theory) low velocity or high velocity, lower damage.
Have a good one too!
Correct.
You can also decide that your rules are decisive:
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Even the Ju 87 D-5? 🤔
It seems that the roles were kinda switched. The MG 151 was supposed to be a multipurpose cannon but it seems like the MG 151/20 replaced it in the role of ground attack.
Probably the reason why the Fw 190 never used the MG 151/15.
Against soft targets or parked air planes the 20mm is just more effective, while the high velocity of the MG 151/15 made it useful for attacking fighters.
…but i can’t force gaijin to take my money.
You nail it. Before I can throw 70$ into a ta 152 H / fw 190 D with jumo213EB and mk213, the option need to exist.
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No, i forgot about that one, the Ju 87 D-5 also doesnt use the 15mm barrels.
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Is it possible to replace MG151/20 of the Me 163 B-0 with the MG151/15?
Technically it’s possible on every plane.
Practically the MG 151/20 was the all-purpose weapon, while the MG 151/15 was more of an anti-fighter gun, due to its higher velocity.
So operationally the Me 163 would only use the MG 151/20 or MK 108 to attack bombers.
Since going after fighters in a rocket interceptor plane wouldn’t make much sense.
I know that part, but in 8.3~9.3 BR, the MG151/20’s power is not outstanding, and its ballistics, velocity, and bullet spread are worse than Nr23 and Gsh23, so I think it would be better to replace it with MG151/15 if it can :(
Well, it’s the whole reason I made that post.
I wanted gather information, feedback and make a proper suggestion, something like:
Suggestion: Allow ALL aircraft equipped with mg151 to select their caliber (15mm or 20mm) as a modification
I know GhostMaxi has multiple suggestion for individual aircraft that operationally used the mg151/15. But i’d like to propose something more general, that would concern every plane, even the Italian equipped 151.
There is multiple question we can have:
-
Is it possible?
According to the manual, it seems to be, the only thing you’d need to do would be to swap the barrel, of course you’d need to equip the correct ammo but it’s trivial. -
Was it done operationally?
The answer depends of the specific plane variation but the general answer seems to be that early plane did it while later in the war they did not, because the focus shifted to shot down heavy bombers.
And I’d like to make the argument that in a game in which we can play planes that were never used operationally, the counter-argument that “No fw190 used 151/15 irl” feels weak. -
Is it feasible in the current game without much trouble?
100% yes, the Bf 109 K4 can already swap between the mg 151/20 and the mk108 with a modification, it should not be tho complex for the devs to implement this. -
It is a interesting addition?
I’m biased but I’d say yes. The option to select between high velocity low damage and the opposite adds a lot of replay-ability and variation when fighting those plane. -
Does it introduce or fix some balance issues?
Again, I say it 100% fix some balance issues. The 151 is the worse 20mm in the game currently, and 190 and 109s being plane that turn badly can make it hard to pull enough lead to hit a shot.
Also, it gives german fighers an option to destroy pillboxes. since 90% of the 20mm can apparently 1 shot pillboxes. A proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Fy_9lUYNI
In my personal opinion Gaijin’s severe nerf to the MG151/20 has had a significant impact.
Even back in 2019-2021, when Minengeschoss was strong the MG151/20 was still tricky to use, but a single mine shell hit could shatter the vehicle, and the trajectory didn’t drop as much as it does now, and the shell spread wasn’t as severe as that of the Gsh23
While other 20mm cannons (Hispano, ShVak, type 99) have seen their power buffed, the 20mm MG151/20 has been weakened over the past five years due to various bugs and deliberate nerfs by Gaijin.
In fact, the firepower of other 20mm cannons, excluding the MG151/20, has become excessively strong, making the trade-off for the MG151/20’s speed and ballistics meaningless.
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Since a while i have noticed that German aircraft with MG 151/20s kill light pill boxes rather easy. I watched some Air RB replays as i saw this in the kill feed - and tested it in a live match weeks (months?) ago. I had no problems to kill some pillboxes with the Rank III BR 3.3 Me 410 A-1 with a few hits - with the air target belt.
What still seems to be impossible with MG 151/20s is the ability to kill ai tanks in Air RB. Other cannons can. When playing the 3.3 Firefly or the 4.0 VB 10 it is no problem to kill ai tanks with Hispanos (i use universal belt).
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Mm, I guess I might have to re-test it a some point, I’ll be honest, after playing planes with actually decent 20mm, I subconsciously avoid the german air tree.
From the few games I played in the D9 while grinding for the flapjack, I’ve noticed that damage seems a bit better than last month. I didn’t particularly test against pillbox tho. Most of time I don’t even bother shooting at pillbox since it can take 100+ round to finish one off. So I’ll be glad if it changed for the better.
Something I find interesting about damage is how guns that are supposed to be similar can be completely different.
From recent experience:
-
Hispanos 404 of the french tech tree are 100% the best guns in the game. I don’t know what is special about the Mb 157 armament, but 90% of the time, it’s 1 shot - 1 kill. I get small spark once in a while but i’m quite sure it’s due to ping and not the guns.
-
Shvack and AN-M2 and M3 follow closely they have a full belt of FI-T or HEI and slap most thing out of the air without issue, Still, I get a lot more spark than with the 404.
-
Hispanos Mk2 and Mk5 are next, they are hit or miss and will either obliterate the enemy (since they come by 4 is most planes) or spark for hours.
1 recent example: https://youtu.be/Ml12NlWXZ8U
On a surface view, the damage doesn’t seem that bad, but there is 10 shot where the shot hit visually. As a reminder, this is what a hispanos 20mm is supposed to do:
I guess it’s possible that I only hit SAP-I and AP, tho I would doubt it with the amount of lead. It would be nice if you could confirm this by not having some clearly inferior rounds is your belts but, oh well…
Also, the important point is that my friend finished him off (It took 7 more hits, as per the server replay) and I got zero assist so that’s nice.
Where am I getting at? Well, that gaijin should really check the way each gun is modeled because it doesn’t make any sense, some guns that are supposed to be almost the same have some completely different damage and consistency. Maybe i just have some insane luck with the 157, so I’d like to ask if other could test this as well. Because if the 404 are consistently better than the hispanos, while their should be minor differences between the 2, maybe there is some weird variable "random change of minor damage) that should be commented out.
this is more related to this
Oh, and while I’m at it, 1 theory I’ve heard for the difference in damage between the 151 and the rest is this one:
Shvack - FI-T
151 on the 190-A4, HEI
Note how the 151 explode after penetrating while the shvak explode the very moment it touches the wing. Note: This is not because of some fuze sensitivity, it does the exact same on the p47 for example
For the record, this is with the Hanomag, mg151 but russian tech tree. As you can see, detonate On wing wing, not after traversing.
The theory is that because the mg151 has a longer fuze delay, 0.3m for the 190-A4, 0.1m for the Hanomag and the other 20mm, it detonates AFTER touching the plane, but the shell does not get the momentum of the plane it hits, and thus explode behind it, doing zero damage, or light yellow. I have no idea how you could even confirm that, appart from reverse - engineering a replay file and tracking the position of the shell and the plane to see when the shell explode and it’s distance compared to the plane.