Basically the title.
I think this would be a really nice addition the German air tree below 7.0, reasoning is as follow:
German fighters tend have bad maneuverability and pulling enough lead to make a shot can be hard or impossible, when compounded with the horrible ballistics of the mg151 it is at an enormous disadvantage compared to its common enemy who have a much flatter trajectory.
i never knew there was an upgraded version of the mg 151. Do you have any document to show?
Quite the opposite actually, the mg151 was originally a 15mm gun, it was latter upgraded to 20mm.
Its actually the reason I make this proposition, as the 2 guns system are basically the same but different bore. IRL it should have been trivial to swap between the 2.
But in the context of war thunder were everyone can pull 12G and were most of your fight are against fighter, the ballistics of the 20mm is not it.
Even against a still target, getting any shot at 800m+ is near impossible, in headon the round is so slow that your enemy have the time to:
Pull into the headon, fire a burst and pull out before anything reach them.
I’m sure than if the RLM had to fight in WT condition the 15mm variant would have been a lot more common, but as they focused on taking down big bomber formation they needed the higher damage output of the 20mm.
And despite how hard getting a burst to connect can be, you have horrible belt choice:
Air target has 2 mediocre round and 4 of the good HEI, so you gamble that the correct round will hit.
Armored has 3 APHE, which are decent if you hit something that trigger the fuze, but as you guess, 1 IT round that doesn’t do anything.
Tracer have FI-T which are just worse than HEI, and give all the warning in the world for everyone to dodge, and of course 2 IT round.
Stealth is probably the best, 3 HEI, 1 APHE but a bad AP-I. But you dont have anything to help correct your aim, so tough luck.
Oh, and a bit more: 151 are the worse when it comes to ground target, other 20mm have no problem dealing with pillboxes, but nope, even with the armored belt you need to precisely hit the window to do damage.
Of course, the extreme inconsistency of the 151.
examples, those image come from the server replay, so no de sync business:
p51h that I hit 9 times (only 20mm)
Spitfire that I hit with a burst to the wing, you can clearly see the 3 mine shell (HEI) and 1 IT
I don’t want to derail the topic as this is discussed in many other forum post so I’ll stop here.
so the mg 151 and mg 151/15 are the same?
if you consider an AR-15 chambered in 5.56 otan and another AR-15 in .308 the “same” yes.
Correct me if there are any other major difference, especially ones that would not allow the 2 gun to be swap easily.
Until 1941 the names were Mg 151 and Mg 151/20, then Mg 151/15 and Mg 151/20 and from 43 or so it was just Mg 151 for the 20mm gun and Mg 151/15 if the 15mm barrel was used.
All planes with the exeption of Do 217 Nightfighter and Fw 190 used both 15 and 20 mm barrels.
They were easily interchangable, just switching the barrel was enough to interchange the 15x96mm and 20x82mm ammo.
I actually already made a bunch of reports for multiple planes. Sadly either not yet looked at or simply “suggestion” which means possibly the devs dont care and it will never be implemented.
Most interesting is the Bf 109 F-4, the Bf 110 F-2, G-2 and G-4 which can have up to 4 guns.
Hs 129 B-2 and Do 17 Z-7. Tho i wish they would fix the rest of the ammo already, currently only the AP-I has the shrapnell pattern, but the rest is missing them. The incendary chance is also lower than Cal. .50 even tho it has double the filler. And H-Pzgr. HVAP would be so good against ground, but currently the damage output is just BAD.
And H-Pzgr. HVAP would be so good against ground, but currently the damage output is just BAD.
Is it a 151/20 ammo type? Is not the exact subject but could you link some source/forum page about it?
Hilariously, the mg151/15 on the bf109 f2 is better at killing pillbox that the 190 A8 with 4 151/20 AND 2 13mm.
No, H-Pzgr. is only available for High velocity guns, in this case the 15mm barrel.
52g 1050m/s 9,5 mm Tungsten Steel core.
just switching the barrel was enough to interchange the 15x96mm and 20x82mm ammo.
Could link any source i think it would really help solidify this proposition.
Tho it feels counter intuitive that just changing the barrel works, doesn’t the chamber to need some adjustment, or are the cartridge the same size?
Here the 03.1942 Manual.
Exchanging only the barrel is possible, as it was specifically desinged that way, as overall the ammo has the same dimension. Page 15. States the Mg 151 can be exchanged by simply switching the barrels from 15 to 20mm barrels and the other way around.
Thank you very much.
I think if this suggestion is accepted, it should just be available as a modification, like the way some 109 can swap between the 151/20 or the mk108 in the nose, I think all fighter (at least) should be able to do the same. I would massively increase the lethality, especially in those scenario where you are about to get a shoot but can’t pull the lead required to hit with the 151/20.
Or when chasing an enemy, you would actually be able to hit beyond 600m at someone running away.
This isnt a suggestion.
Well, first do you think this manual is enough to make a suggestion and second how could I make one?
I already made some suggestions here (in the appropiate section) and on the bug report website.
This manual alone isnt enough.
Whilst i appreciate your efforts a short reminder:
I other words:
Gaijin decided to implement functionalities which look like “inspired by reality” in game modes with pure fantasy settings. I mean g-loads of air frames and pilots are just the most obvious - allowing combat ranges up to 2.5 km (0.50 cals) thanks to mouse aim and hand holding of MnK players with artificial stabilization makes this problem (aka as Mg 151/20 nerf) just clear visible.
In any case: Have a good one!
You ask gaijin for a workaround for a problem created by gaijin itself.
At the end of the day, you have to play the card you have. We can’t really make any bug report because we would need:
Gaijin can fill blank however they want. We have to play those rules.
Also, apart from the problem “created” by gaijin I still think it would be a fun and unique addition, being able to select between high damage (in theory) low velocity or high velocity, lower damage.
Have a good one too!
Correct.
You can also decide that your rules are decisive:
Even the Ju 87 D-5? 🤔
It seems that the roles were kinda switched. The MG 151 was supposed to be a multipurpose cannon but it seems like the MG 151/20 replaced it in the role of ground attack.
Probably the reason why the Fw 190 never used the MG 151/15.
Against soft targets or parked air planes the 20mm is just more effective, while the high velocity of the MG 151/15 made it useful for attacking fighters.
…but i can’t force gaijin to take my money.
You nail it. Before I can throw 70$ into a ta 152 H / fw 190 D with jumo213EB and mk213, the option need to exist.
No, i forgot about that one, the Ju 87 D-5 also doesnt use the 15mm barrels.
