The problem is that in that short amount of time the logic of the missile will tell it to home on jam (as it is being heated by the laser) and shortly after the seeker is damaged, the missile will simply fall back to IOG+DL guidance. So for in-game purposes the latter would be the best solution, or just IOG.
care to elaborate on that? or is throwing doubt all you came to do?
as for the broader scope, helicopters equipped with IR guided AGMs are supposed to undertake nap-of-the-earth flying and detect targets, rise only when firing and dive back down. this COD inspired playstyle of shoot shoot shoot shoot win lottery of kills is completely brainrot
in terms of THEORY
i we are to assume the sun as point, laser as planar and a point target (sensor), both emitters would have similar affects on the sensor as the ray density hitting the sensor would be roughly the same.
however in practicality, Lasers have also have spread, not just the sun. and the sun can cause the damage it can do WITHOUT needing to be a planar source.
30 vs 2.8, basically weaken it by 10.7 times and you think a seeker made of crystals of indium antimonide (iirc thats what they use on IRIS-T) would get destroyed or damaged? (It has a melting point of… DRUM ROLL PLEASE… 535 degrees celcius)
that video you showed did not display target data, what material was it made of?
what was exposure time?
what was the maximum output of the laser DURING the test?
oh and also DEW (directed energy weapons) are a whole different class of weapon as compared to LDIRCM
2 Likes
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
realistically all the diffractions from laser will be minute unless you are lasing something like 50km away
Damaging seeker =! physically melting the photoelectric Array.
the heat can pretty much ruin the whole crystal latice rendering its detection capabilites useless
i would assume duralumin because its a drone
Please rewatch the video
the maximum output is 30 kW cannot be higher. Not sure if they used maximum output or not
the Powers are still in the comparable order. i still dont doubt a 2.8 kw laser damaging the seeker immediatly
This is how it should behave in reality, the only way you’d die to IRIS-T on something say like the Apache, would be get hit right in the hemisphere’s blind spot or a 3rd missile that cannot be jammed. I think being able to deflect 2 missiles is incredibly fair considering that should give you enough time to get to cover and reposition.
Sadly for the Mi-28NM, it’s a whole different story, as its DLRICM placement doesn’t really allow to defend against incoming missiles only from below or the sides.
Although I heard there were proposals for a DLIRCM block in front of the nose, which Gaijin could add, and I wouldn’t be opposed to. But it would still be prone to the fact that the system can be overwhelmed. But it is a fair trade, considering both SLM and helicopters can saturate the airspace to counter each other.
6 Likes
You play 1 kill/spawn on FnF heli. If you fly up like yolo in each game and launch all missiles while dying from the first spaa there will be the same effectiveness. You obviously don’t understand how to play on a helicopter, having such efficiency on it. And you’re not even playing against iris-t.
also forgot to mention but its melting point depends on till what extent the substrate has been doped
unless you forgot, this thread is discussion and very technical aspect of modern systems.
i maintain that balancing is gaijins problem. they should have thought about this before jumping into this can of worms wearing a blindfold
i was always in favour of better tech’d out SALCLOS and ACLOS systems with upto 20km of range and keeping the cancer KH-38 out of the game
but sicne you people seem to like a dominant AGM, which by the way it severely unrelistic even in its most linient implementation that i can imagine, the SLM deserves to have at least a semi realistic seeker that isnt CAStrated by some noobs flying a handheld Helicopter
unless you didnt know, i am aware
no reason to point it out
you barely scratched my argument
btw
you being here paints a different picture
i never said it is a realistic game. i said it is a game that TRIES to be realistic. and im arguing that it should NOT give up that effort
oh im sorry for disobeying the snail god!
im good enough with one god thank you. i dont need to bow down to gaijin. stakeholders power and all that
never gave em a single cent
oh please, finally we are talking, dont just say that and not tell us
1 Like
Early helicopters are extremely toxic to counter where IR SAMs can’t lock them and SPAAGs don’t have enough range on their guns to hit anything other than afk, hovering helicopters.
New AAs were added as an answer to planes and their own AGMs.
They apparently were too good of a counter so Gaijin intervened and added a new toy for CAS players, DIRCM helicopters.
This wasn’t really hard to predict, CAS is designed to be oppressive.
If helicopters can reliably get to cover before they’re hit by that 3rd or 4th missile then you barely changed anything, with only bottom of the barrel helicopter players being affected and killed.
Decent players would still be able to dunk on AAs and CAS would remain extremely powerful.
This is what helicopters like German Tiger did to SACLOS AAs.
They were able to fire off their missile in time and still evade AAs effectively, making them basically unkillable from the ground in the right hands.
congrats youre smarter than the average poster in this thread!
It goes both ways as the helicopter can saturate the airspace and so does the AA battery, they both counter each other the same way. You can’t have it be a only way for one vehicle type, which is what SLM is struggling with right now, since it cannot even saturate the airspace to defend itself.
Your saturation doesn’t matter if helicopter is still able to dodge your missiles in time with the help of DIRCM. MAWS back in the day did the same thing for helicopters and made any semi-aware/decent player really hard to kill.
Helicopters have a much easier time to rearm, so the game of attrition is still easily on their side.
the forumla you reference takes into account ray density based upon a non point target/sensor with some non-negligible surface area or exposure to the radial rays of the sun. however, i specifically stated a point target which can only be affected by DIRECT rays from the sun as even nanoscopic deviations from the normal of that point target will never reach the target.
irl studies and experiments state otherwise. lasers are electromagnetic radiation. same as visible light but of a different frequency and amplitude.
since light is affected as close as finger length from my eye if it needs to pass through a simple change in medium (say steam to normal air as an example), i can reasonably deduce that Lasers encounter a similar effect to similar or greater degrees especially over the operating distances when it comes to LDIRCM (upto 500m ive heard)
yes and that much heat would require either a terribly strong laser or a terribly long exposure time to actully de-nature the crystal lattice
according to the scientific studies conducted and referenced in my OP, lasers proved useless in damaging the seeker, only 1 study referenced possible damage and they did not specifc whether they used a mercy alloy seeker or an indium antimonide one. and since the latter has such a high melting point, it is fair to deduce that the de-naturing point of the lattice would be proportionally higher
the way that it burned i could even assume aviationfibre
i meant that the video seemed cut and did not show any visible cues as to when the emitting laser started its attack cycle
thats maximum possible output of all laser emitter combined of which there were around 8 or something. but during the test they may not have run in the maximum possible output so i was asking about the maximum used power in the test
immediate effect will have to be proven, as it stands, research does not support that conclusion
1 Like
It does matter, as the LDIRCM blocks can only deflect so many incoming missiles at once, the Z-10E would be able to deflect 3 missiles and the Apache 2, only the Mi-28, unfortunately, would be left behind with only 1 missile. IRIS-T missiles can’t be multipahted, and they loft so you cannot dodge them like you would an ARH missile.
This is assuming the realistic jamming limits are implemented without regard of where the DLIRCM blocks are.
Z-10E would be able to deflect 2 missiles at once*
Well, only 2 :)
so using stats from june… 5 months ago?
statshaming going hard from this guy lmao
oh btw i dont play TT anymore because of all this cancer, Kh-28 and LDRICM, what is a gunless, almost flareless and literally no way to defend or attack a Z-10/AH-64E or Mi-28NM gonna do?
1 Like
all that in mind, military equipment is designed to be operated in a CM rich environment. since IRIS-T is advertised with CCM to lasers, i think it would be pretty well designed and treated for handling such cases
1 Like
Which i have already mentioned.
i see that you have, however i am arguing on behalf of IIR seekers. not just IRIS-T/SLM
1 Like