Premium F-2A ADTW Falling Behind at Its BR

[DarkSilentNights]

@まえる

​It is increasingly clear that when faced with structural criticism, your only defense is to resort to technical misinformation and “go play another mode” deflections.

it is increasingly clear that when faced with structural criticism, your only defense is to resort to technical misinformation.

funny how this is applicable to you more than us.

[Refrain300]

So you don’t know how track mem works in game?

[DarkSilentNights]

this guy doesn’t know how the game works, period.

[DarkSilentNights]

@まえる

You claim that I can “turn around in TRK MEM and the Sparrow will still hit within 10km.” This is physically impossible in War Thunder. The AIM-7M is a Semi-Active Radar Homing (SARH) missile. It requires continuous illumination from the parent aircraft’s radar to the target. If the F-2A turns away, the radar stops illuminating the target, and the missile loses guidance immediately.

this is physically possible in warthunder. if it were not, i would not say it is.

sidelobing is comically exaggerated and you can illuminate people that are behind you with track-valid radar signals.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@まえる

During those “5 seconds” (which you call a mild inconvenience)

aand you’re twisting my words

@まえる

if BVR “doesn’t exist,” then why are F-14s and ARH carriers firing from 30km and forcing 13.0 SARH carriers into defensive maneuvers? If a missile forces me to drop my lock and defend, it has successfully achieved its tactical objective. Denying the existence of BVR while advocating for “just notching” the very missiles that define BVR combat is a massive contradiction.

BVR does exist, it’s just a terrible way to get kills.

long range launches are easy to detect from far away (especially AIM-54s visually), missiles also lose energy over time, making them slow down

long range launches are easy to spot visually or detect on RWR while also giving you a large amount of time to react and dodge properly.

This is what I mean by “mild inconvenience”
Thanks to this, the meta for radar missiles is their close to medium range performance rather than long range
Proof of this is the rafale’s domination for an entire year despite having the worse Fox-3 with regards to range.

If you’re worried about Fox-3s, the ones you SHOULD be worried about are R-77s and MICAs, the awareness check missile called the fakour90/AIM-54. simply because those missiles are the meta.

All long range launches, no matter which missile, are an awareness check. Nobody actually paying attention using their eyes or RWR will have issues defending as long as they have a basic understanding of notching mechanics.

War Thunder is NOT real life, the requirements for something to be good are different here. This is especially true with Fox-3s

@まえる

TRK MEM and “5 Seconds”:

Why are we launching sparrows from so far away, the missile lacks the range performance needed to hit anyone unless they’re AFK regardless of whether they’re shooting at you or not.
Sparrows should be used within approx. 10km for highest chances of hitting.
Anything further and you’re literally just gambling on how dumb the enemy is.

This also relates to my explanation earlier with regards to long range missiles and notching.

When you use sparrows at the correct ranges for wt, you actually get kills as they have energy to manouver and a shorter TTT, giving the enemy less reaction time.

@まえる

zero impact on the mathematical fact that SARH vs. ARH is an imbalanced matchup.

There is more to aircraft than just whether they have SARHs or ARHS.
How many do they have?
What airframes do they have?
Missile quality?
What other missiles do they have?
Avionics? (RWR, radar)
What countermeasures?

simply stating that the Fox-1 carrier loses because “wah Fox-3” is inherently dumb because you’re ignoring so many important factors

[Refrain300]

Nobody is calling you bad to be mean, they’re calling you bad because you have a clear misunderstanding of the fundamentals of the game but still have the confidence to think you know better than everyone else

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@まえる

On Personal Attacks and Stats

I’m not trying to be insulting here, but generally if someone does badly in something that tends to mean they lack an understanding of critical game mechanics, gamesense and just how the game works overall.

This leads to a flawed view of the vehicle and its performance.

I myself don’t usually check statistics, I gauge how based on people’s understanding of how the game works.
Generally people who understand how the game works perform well.

[まえる]

​@DarkSilentNights @Refrain300
​It’s honestly impressive how far you’re willing to go with technical misinformation just to avoid admitting that a $70 premium is poorly balanced.
​1. The “Sidelobe” Hallucination:
@DarkSilentNights, claiming you can “illuminate people behind you” with sufficient energy to guide a SARH missile is a complete fabrication. While War Thunder models radar sidelobes for maintaining a lock, the energy intensity of a sidelobe at a 180-degree offset is physically insufficient to provide the reflected signal required for an AIM-7M’s seeker to track.
If you are actually trying to convince people that you can guide a Sparrow while flying in the opposite direction, you aren’t “genius”—you are simply making things up to win a forum argument.
​2. TRK MEM is not Illumination:
@Refrain300, I know exactly how Track Memory works. It predicts target position when the signal is lost. However, TRK MEM does not create radar waves. If the aircraft’s nose is not pointed at the target, there is no signal for the missile to follow. Telling someone to “turn around” and expect a SARH hit is the worst tactical advice possible and would result in a wasted missile 99% of the time.
​3. The “If it weren’t possible, I wouldn’t say it” Fallacy:
That is circular logic at its finest. Using your own claim as proof of its validity is not an argument. I am providing the actual mechanical principles of SARH (Semi-Active Radar Homing). You are providing anecdotes that defy the game’s own flight and combat manuals.
​4. The Consistent Deflection:
Notice how you have still failed to address the Effort Asymmetry:
​F-14 (12.3): Fires ARH, notches immediately, stays safe.
​F-2A (13.0): Must maintain a vulnerable lock, fights flickering radar, and is told to “rely on sidelobes and teammate bait.”
​If the F-2A is so “superior,” why does its defense require 100% of the pilot’s focus while a “shitbox” F-14 can dictate the match from 30km?
​To the Moderators:
We have reached the point where users are providing objectively false technical information (“guiding SARH while looking away”) and continuing to use aggressive, condescending language.
​I’m done debating with people who invent their own physics to justify a broken matchmaker. The facts remain: The F-2A ADTW is a $70 product being sold into a meta it wasn’t equipped for, and no amount of “sidelobe” fairy tales or “garbage” insults will change that technical reality.

[Refrain300]

You need to educate yourself, trk men in war thunder maintains a perfect lock up until it drops

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@まえる

claiming you can “illuminate people behind you” with sufficient energy to guide a SARH missile is a complete fabrication. While War Thunder models radar sidelobes for maintaining a lock, the energy intensity of a sidelobe at a 180-degree offset is physically insufficient to provide the reflected signal required for an AIM-7M’s seeker to track.

SO umm

there we go

[DarkSilentNights]

@まえる

It’s honestly impressive how far you’re willing to go with technical misinformation just to avoid admitting that a $70 premium is poorly balanced.

it’s honestly impressive how far you’re willing to go with technical misinformation just to avoid admitting that the 11000 yen premium is fairly balanced at 13.0

@まえる

claiming you can “illuminate people behind you” with sufficient energy to guide a SARH missile is a complete fabrication. While War Thunder models radar sidelobes for maintaining a lock, the energy intensity of a sidelobe at a 180-degree offset is physically insufficient to provide the reflected signal required for an AIM-7M’s seeker to track.

MiGoon FOX-3 and myself have used this trick to great success, you’ve never even attempted it. don’t spread misinformation just because you’ve never seen this happen yourself.
@MiGoon_Fox-3 you mind sending the F-2A vs JF-17 clip?

@まえる

I know exactly how Track Memory works. It predicts target position when the signal is lost. However, TRK MEM does not create radar waves

it does, otherwise it wouldn’t be able to immediately relock the target once it re-enters valid lock conditions.

@まえる

The “If it weren’t possible, I wouldn’t say it” Fallacy:
That is circular logic at its finest. Using your own claim as proof of its validity is not an argument. I am providing the actual mechanical principles of SARH (Semi-Active Radar Homing). You are providing anecdotes that defy the game’s own flight and combat manuals.

the game has no flight or combat manuals

@まえる

F-14 (12.3)

F-14A is 12.7 and can’t see whether or not you’re launching a missile at it due to lack of launch detection on the RWR

@まえる

F-2A (13.0): Must maintain a vulnerable lock, fights flickering radar, and is told to “rely on sidelobes and teammate bait.”

position better and learn the launch envelopes of your missiles

@まえる

If the F-2A is so “superior,” why does its defense require 100% of the pilot’s focus while a “shitbox” F-14 can dictate the match from 30km?

the F-14A cannot dictate the match, the AIM-54A sucks major balls. you can G-Pull it.
the F-14A has no match presence after its garbage AIM-54s are depleted.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@まえる

F-14 can dictate the match from 30km?

it doesn’t dictate the fight
it just gambles whether the enemy is too dumb to notch
It is trivially simple to defeat the F-14 in the F-2

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@DarkSilentNights

@MiGoon_Fox-3 you mind sending the F-2A vs JF-17 clip?

already did I’m sure but ok

- YouTube

This is pre-PL-12 nerf as well

[DarkSilentNights]

@まえる irrefutable evidence that FOX1 missiles can be guided while the target is behind the launch aircraft

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@まえる

You claim the radar is “insane” and “superior.” In practice, even in STT, the F-2A’s radar lock frequently flickers, blinks, and vanishes entirely. An AESA label doesn’t mean anything if the game’s implementation allows a lock to drop the moment a target maneuvers slightly. Claiming a radar is “superior” when it cannot maintain a stable track for a museum-grade Sparrow is the definition of a paper tiger.

the radar is superior because it’s AESA.

it can scan a huge area really quickly, while also having modern NCTR technology.
This gives you the best awareness out of all aircraft at 13.0

you know exactly where everyone is and what they’re in.
This lets you pick and choose who to target and which scenarios to avoid.

You have the eyes of an eagle while everyone else is a molerat

the dropping of the lock simply refers to the F-2’s radar having a slightly larger notch gate compared to others, it’s generally not a huge issue as you can often quickly relock the enemy aircraft with your radar to keep guiding the sparrow in, I’ve done this with great success multiple times

- YouTube

[DarkSilentNights]

@まえる your takes are just borderline psychotic, i’m evacuating myself out of this discussion because your skull is more armored against information than anything i’ve seen and i feel like you might infect me.

you are impossible to argue with because you repeatedly regurgitate incorrect information and refuse to see the failure of logic in your statements. you are bad at the game, and attempt to use that as ammunition to say that the F-2A ADTW is a bad aircraft at its battlerating when it is not.

i am done here, i encourage you to open yourself up for learning from whoever might try to speak with you in this thread further.

[Xeno_quaza]

For the argument on the missile hitting behind you:

1. The 7M on the F-2 has a sidelobe attenuation of -32, so with +/-60 of beam steering, it can hit a target while in a notch assuming TRK MEM

2. Angular limits in warthunder are not implemeted as they should be on AESAs, so although the maximum off angle should be 60 degrees in any direction, its actually 60 degrees in elevation, and 60 degrees in azimuth. This means that the maximum possible angle is closer to 80~ degrees. Which with a 32 degree sidelobe, can allow for guidance of SARHs on targets slightly behind you in ideal conditions; although this shouldnt be possible irl.

[DarkSilentNights]

@Xeno_quaza

although this shouldnt be possible irl.

90% of the game isn’t possible irl and we should stop pretending the game has any basis in realism at all

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@Xeno_quaza

although this shouldnt be possible irl.

yeah but let’s agree to not get that changed shall we?

TRK MEM + sidelobe is an important mechanic that allows SARH carriers to engage enemies with superior missiles and win

[Refrain300]

I love when bugs in games become fun permanent mechanics so I hope it stays