Hello. I’d really love to see what people think, how should tanks from minor nations be represented in-game.
My opinion on it
My personal opinion is, vehicles should be added to the country which put biggest effort in their production, being entire design ← hull&chassis ← turret ← guns, engines and transmissions ← FCS and electronics. Thus, two examples: if Gaijin was to add EE-T1 Osorio, I’d rather see it in Britain for developing the turret, as Brazil isn’t in game and Italy/Germany/France put least effort to it. Speaking of DL.43 Nahuel, I’d prefer seeing it in Germany due to the gun, as the rest of the tank was mainly manufactured in Argentina, even the French engine being built by Argentinians.
Same as that, I’d prefer seeing various Leopard upgrades in Germany and Russian export tanks in USSR. Even judging by the community, Swedes for example aren’t happy with the Soviet tank being their squadron vehicle. Indian T-90S in the oppressor British tree looks even more out of place.
Copypaste tanks or tanks with minimal upgrades must either be just optional earnable camouflages (but high-quality, not what Gaijin makes like with Leopard 2PL, here is the better version of iconic one) or modifications (e.g. Leo2A6NL must not be present in France tree for no reason, but rather just be a regular Leo2A6 variant with different model and FN MAGs), while deep mods enhancing firepower, mobility and protection must be different vehicles, again based on their origin.
Obviously, that would limit minor nations - what Gaijin wanted to cure by adding subtrees - but some of them have significant helped in foreign designs, such as France’s help in Sucuri, Italy’s help in Sucuri-2, etc.
Nonetheless, I’d love to see and hear what people think of minor nation tanks and their upgrades. Filling up Italian and Swedish trees with stuff that barely belongs to them is really senseless and just messed up the game, well, unless Gaijin wants to make a mixture of T-72M1s and ZSU-57-2s fighting all against each other in four colors…
How would you implement new, minor-nation vehicles?
Full (I-VIII) tech trees with significant copypaste (China type)
Nation-unlockable tech-trees with no copypaste (Israel type but no Magach spam)
Sub-trees with branches full of copypaste (Hungary/Finland type)
Sub-trees featuring a few unique vehicles (Eehh…low-tier only Hungary type)
Single vehicles in trees who made most effort (Leopard 2PL/Vilkas type)
Ok, so there are two things that make WT, well, WT.
A. It’s a line-up-based game.
B. A nation is the nation itself, aka everything their military used, not what their industry made.
So with these two facts in mind, without a rework of some systems like sub-trees (1-line isn’t enough for 80% of the nation’s people want as ST, they have too much unique tech, and they have to fight the host for limited space).
With the 5-line limit in mind as well, I’d rather new trees with C&P but plenty of room for unique stuff as TT over an ST that can only see 5% of its stuff. Tho depending on the nation, they shouldn’t be C&P heavy, unless no effort was put into them, and I can think of a few nations that should be like that(and the few C&P heavy are justifiable).
While true, the sub-trees could support set-ups by getting the sub-tree’s vehicles into folders with existing ones (e.g. France is filled, but if I had no own opinion but just the choice between TT and ST, I’d choose ST with say, Belgian T.13/T.15 on lowtier foldered with AMC.35/Citroen P7T, CATI 90 and trucks on midtier foldered with ELC AMX or smth lower, and Cocki-X and Leo.3105 at high/top tier foldered with stuff like Vextra-105, though French light tank line is pretty empty, rather than have entire Benelux be a Vickers/Sherman/Leopard paradise only for aforementioned vehicles and a few WW2 DAF trucks).
Also true with operator-based gameplay, but there really should be a limit. Fine when Soviet T-34 meets German trophy T-34, but when Indian Bhishma fights Russian T-90A and when Hungarian Leo2A7 fights German one, it’s just… absurd… of course in realistic battles it’s all non-historical mix and we have SB for that, but Russian vehicles keep staying in the Western bloc even there, and one day vice-versa I’m afraid.
Tbh I’d rather keep any unique or modded vehicles and filter out the copy and paste if it’s a subtree that can’t get it’s own tree.
As for independent trees, as long as over 50% of vehicles are either unique or unique mods then I’m fine with it having a China style tree.
Alternatively we could do away with nation line ups altogether, only adding vehicles with differences (even small one like a change in mg). One could call it a grind without borders, even if there’s nothing to define the research tree against the world /hj.
I personally don’t agree with making folders of unrelated vehicles, it A. doesn’t feel right, B. kills the sub-tree, people want folders to skip vehicles, not for extra spaces.
At the core, the current sub-tree system does not work with how War Thunder is set up in all ways, to the point majority of the sub-trees are either hated, unwanted, or now can’t see 90% of their tech. As of right now, there isn’t a single sub-tree I can call a success. I know a number of players who main hosts nations who don’t/didn’t want the sub-trees they have.
Maybe if we had this sub-tree would be viable, but as someone whose tech is ripped across tech-trees, I’d rather in War Thunder’s current state either a full tree with a bit more than normal C&P or nothing in-game at all. Over either not being able to use my tech together or seeing less than 5% of it in a 1-line ST.
As for the other issue, SB can be fixed by leaning more into the event thing it uses, and limiting what vehicles can join/what side they play on.
AB is mixed battles 24/7(and likely why Gaijin is so C&P happy)
And RB… with it being the middle ground, its matchmaking issues aren’t something easy to fix.
I would’ve rather Israel get India while the UK got Canada/Australia but if gajin is deadset on giving the UK tree Indian vehicles then at least give the modified or indigenous vehicles.
Mixed opinion on that, to be honest, should have just put the vehicles where best suited. Soviet stuff to the soviets. British stuff to Britain, etc etc. Not really anything that Indian provides Britain that we cant already get natively and the connection to Israel is a bit weak. Though they would benefit from a sub-TT more than most
Im genuinely fearing we’ll just get C&P of whatever the soviets are getting instead of a native top tier SPAA in the form of the Sky Sabre next major.
Indian Tech, which relies on Israel’s technology, such as potential high-tier Indian additions like the Su-30, should be given to Israel, as they use Israeli weapon systems. Britain does not need an Su-30 just like how Russia did not need the Iranian F-14.
I do not want Russia to have an Su-30 with Israeli weapon systems either. Russia already has the Kh-38, and I can confidently say that no one wants another Russian Aircraft with IR Glide Bombs like the SPICE series in that lineup.
Israel is already a mix of East and West technology and fits the theme while having strong connections to today’s India. Modern Indian Vehicles should be given to Israel to prevent Britain from getting an unnecessary and likely lazy Russian Subtree.
EXACTLY how I think it should be. Makes sense, and tech doesn’t come across each other in battles for no purpose. Each nation stays unique, having it’s own pros&cons, not stealing each other’s.
The rework proposal looks interesting, too. Again, could have been more interesting way to present it than to show Thailand, which has no uniqueness to it so it just steals Gripen for Japanese setup, lol
Problem with every other nation, too. That’s why nation must consist of tech-based vehicles.
clearly different modifications of Leclercs for local and foreign use as well as the EBRC and experimental reconnaissance cars are not as needed as another bunch of Leopards-2, the national heritage of France.
Fair, but the suggestion isn’t about the specific subtrees, it’s about the rework affecting all current and future subtrees.
That’s why I tried to show different nations as examples, including existing subtrees like Hungary or BeNeLux, (at the time) just confirmed subtrees like Thailand and likely future subtrees like Pakistan.
Thailand was also just the best fit for this specific edit. They have a pretty simple selection of F-16 modifications and a Gripen that were easy to edit in a way that looked believable based on the existing assets in the game. In hindsight I forgot the F-5TH, but it’s still a near-complete Thai rank VIII that I’m somewhat proud of.
Originally I also tried India, but missing tech tree images for many vehicles made that really difficult.