For now imma go sleep good night guys
Yo, there in fact is.
Although quite hard to read, there is no mention of any mobility upgrades (that info is for the CR 3 TD & should be dated to 2021 if I remember correctly), here’s what it says:
- Survivability - The new turret structure and armour system provide the highest standard of protection for the tank, and enables incorporation of hard and soft kills protection systems.
- Surv & Target acqusition - improved long range gunner & commander primary sights with automatic target tracking plus improved integrated something something
- Lethality is a bunch of bla bla bla really irrelevant
Case in point, no mention of a more powerful engine, meaning CR 3 TDs engine output is - as far as you and me are concerned, fake & made up by Gaijin.
so you are now arguing against the manufacturer itself and the MOD, interressting
That table is from the manufacturer, from DSEI 2021 to be precise. It’s for the Challenger 3 Tech Demo, the one we have got in the game, it is quite irrelevant here whether newer prototypes or the finished product will have a better engine, the tech demonstrator, didn’t.
Aside from:
An upgraded engine with a new cooling system and hydrogas suspension to improve accuracy and mobility when firing in transit.
Doesn’t mention the uprating to 1500hp (“mod source”).
Well, to be precise it is not the one we got in game. The one we got is DSEI 2019
Yeaa, fair enough.
What I don’t understand is why Poland?
I don’t agree with requests for Dutch or Swiss aircraft to be put in the German tree, but at least those have a minor basis on why it’d be an option.
For Poland there is literally none.
Are we literally asking for their stuff to be put in Germany just cause they got invaded…?
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Germany’s natural and real allies have been all atteached to other nation’s trees. Like Finland (Ger and Fin allied since the Great War up to today). Hungary also gone. Allied since old times up to today with alot defense joint ventures.
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I’ll support that it gets this in addition to the ICE F-4. Not as a replacement. The F-4 had that significant of an impact on the worlds militaries and it is great to see some love given to the plane. As a traditionally German main…
The F-4 is still competitive to fly against more modern planes. Having one with impressive radar and advanced missiles will make it even more enjoyable. I’d be willing to buy it if that’s what it takes.
In addition… Yes having the F-16 would be pretty cool. We already have their tanks…
Because just like Dutch or Swiss aircraft, Polish ones are also a possible fix to Germany’s woes in higher tiers. Of course, the basis is rather weak (especially if we discount the last 30 years of the international co-operation the two countries had with each other).
The other reason is the 2PL already having been put in the German TT, so like it or not, Germany is as of today the first TT choice for any future Polish additions unless they receive their own independent TT.
Personally I’d rather have either Dutch or Danish F-16AMs, but we can’t simply remove Poland from this calculation.
Long story short, Germany has a number of possibilites and so all are taken into consideration, some better some worse - but all relevant.
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The best solution would have been if they’d put Germany’s old allies from WW1 and WW2 to Ger TT. I have to a agree that it indeed might be strange to put Poland or NL to Ger TT. But what else is left? The historic allies all mainly gone and put to other TTs.
Austrian units went to France, Finland to Sweden. Hungary to Italy.
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Well…
The F-14 is utilized as a one trick pony and is a top tier jet. We give it AIM-54s it dumps them and goes home. It’s practically a meta in its own. So that’s not something out of the realm of possibilities.
Everyone seems to think the F-4 is unflyable against the current top tiers; however, just a few months ago we were. It was still able to hang in there. I have quite a few kills in it being F-15s, F-16s, MiG-29s, etc… It just requires not wanting to get into straight dogfights with them and use your distance advantages.
We know the ICE variant also carried some very advanced short range air to air. The IRIS-T may very well be the Killswitch that makes people think twice about getting close to the F-4. I don’t know what other missiles it may have gotten in the AIM-9 series.
I’d be okay seeing this plane at 12-12.3. Especially if we get an intelligent and needed BR decompression. We probably won’t but I’ll still be okay with it at 12.3. F-18 radar set, advanced missiles, and true BVR.
We can also take the F-16. It’s no different than the US getting the F-16A, ADF, F-14 early/late dous up here.
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There are two classes or F-4 in that era. The ones sent for ICE were not air to ground. They weren’t supposed to be loaded with bomb loads.
Both F-14s are also 0.7 - 1.0 BR below the actual top-tier, and their gimmick is that they’re the only jets in the game with ARH missiles, they are also far more capable dogfighters than the F-4 will ever be. It’s a mismatch.
Everyone seems to think the F-4 is unflyable against the current top tiers
There is a reason why F-4EJ Kai II (best in-game variant as of today), a jet with the same exact loadout as the F-14B if we throw AIM-54s out the window, is below it in BR - and the F-14B itself is waay lower than the F-16C (that ICE may presumably go up against once AMRAAMs arrive). So basically, an airframe that taps out at a whole BR rating below the current top tier (despite employing similar radar & weaponary), would have to go up against them mano e mano once AMRAAMs are added.
The flight performance simply isn’t up to par, henceforth:
I’d be okay seeing this plane at 12-12.3. Especially if we get an intelligent and needed BR decompression.
The only way for ICE to not be DOA would be to have it fight lower BR’d jets, which assumes (like you beautifully described it), an implementation of a intelligent BR decompression, however this is War Thunder we’re talking about.
The IRIS-T may very well be the Killswitch that makes people think twice about getting close to the F-4. I don’t know what other missiles it may have gotten in the AIM-9 series.
I’d say the chances of ICE getting IRIS-T are very low, if not straight up non-existent. It is simply a too good of a missile compared to everything that isn’t ASRAAM, 9X Block II or R-74M2 - even without HOBS, it would create a ~25km (high altitude) and ~15km (lower altitude) death hemisphere in which you’re done the moment you’re in view. It is practically unflareable (I^2R seeker), kinematically undodgeable unless fired at from extreme range, etc.
As for 9 series, there’s AIM-9L-(I) and L-(I-1), both of which are 9M equivalents.
So we’re going to casually ignore that Britain has two Polish vehicles, which is more than Germany has?
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It would compensate the stone-old airframe. You can’t introduce the F-4F Ice without giving it a compensatione. Cause F-15, F-16 etc are a thing…
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And one premium plane in us tt
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Germany doesn’t need any other country attached to it regardless of whether they are allies of not.
Single vehicle addition to plug a gap, fine, but attachment?
It still leaves the question of why Poland when the other possibilities exist.
Your point I understand, but it is a purely WW2 centered one and ignored the other 80 years after the war out of the equation.
Is the Netherlands not an ally of Germany for much longer than Poland is?
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You’re changing the goalpost. Aside from that those “Polish vehicles” are of British origin (given, employing this train of thought the Polish 16C Block 52+ would go to the US, so I understand your problem with my explanation).
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Only a single tank did.
That does not mean all Austrians automatically go to France. Germany is just as likely if not more to receive Austrian stuff in the future 🤷♂️
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