Yeah, F4F-ICE might not be winning a gunfight vs F-16, but AMRAAM + Aim-9Li + Decent radar + decent RWR + Supersonic, its one of the best armed and equipped aircraft at that BR and holds a notable advantage in at least 1 key way over every single aircraft at that BR
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The ting is, this is Sim EC! The average ape flying the F-16 can and will lose to an ICE, even in a gunfight. And I’ve done it several times with only stock performance mods.
It’s not some ARB 1v1 neutral merge Duel.
It’s called nuance, and clearly he’s not arguing with any of it.
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Yeah, I once won a 1v2 in a stock FA2 vs a Mig-29G and a Su-27. Was rather emberrasing for them.
But yeah, ICE is 100% playable and probably even the meta aircraft at that BR at the moment in the hands of a capable pilot. Not really playing that bracket much with the unfinished nature of the FA2, but really not looking forward to FA2 vs ICE fights if/when they do. Thats gunna be an uphill battle and really jealous that the F3 Late didnt move down as well
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Honestly the ICE shouldn’t have moved down in the first place. Playing it in 13.7/14.0 isn’t even that bad once you get the missile mods. The only time I was “struggling” was when I had less magazine depth than the MiG-29G.
Yeah. It really shouldnt have. Or at the very least, should have moved back as soon as the Typhoon was added. Im fully prepared to wait for a 12.3-13.3 bracket (which could be sooner rather than later) to play the F3 Late (but really hope we get Phimats soon)
But yeah, the 3 other AMRAAM slingers all have notable weakness (FA2/AV-8B+ are subsonic and the Viggen has a weak RWR and no IRCCM) and so have a reason to be 13.0. ICE really doesnt.
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Cool story, so when the F14 goes to BR13.0, or 13.3 then?
When is F4E going to 11.0, or 11.3?
When is F4U4B going to 6.7?
etc.
etc.
No you can’t. You already “generated” 1.33 kill ratio at a whopping 12% (TWELVE %) Win rate. :D
Cmon man, you’re a joke.
Let me reiterate…the “enough” ICE at 13.0 has a kill ratio of 1, while Mig29G without any ARH, also at 13.0, is doing 1.37. Any plane you put there and give it AIM120 WILL score something and there will always be sycophants that will claim, it’s “enough”…BUT, is it?
Let that sink in for a minute while observing Mig29G stats.
Which is from playing it at 13.3 and in GSB, I’ve had 1 game in a 13.0 match and didn’t even have the 120 mod unlocked yet. But I’m sure you added the couple of A2G kills into the KD right? Since of S1 deaths are counted, the kills might be as well? Or do you have some fantasy capability to separate air and ground battle stats?
Winrate is irrelevant to the jets capability. F-15/F-16/F-111 taking full Napalm has more effect on match result than any fighter.
Ohh so you have another fantasy capability to say that was played in the 13.0 bracket? Try again, that’s in the 13.7 bracket bub
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Don’t care…
No, it’s not.
Winrate is a product of your engagement in the game.
The more you do the higher the WR, the lower the kill ratio.
Didn’t play many ECs, did you?
I’m not spending another month in timeout just to explain how stupid you are for this comment
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Yeah, you don’t have to. You’re overall WR (in various TTs) in SB says all about your level of play, even when you don’t speak.
If you can’t separate WR from stats you’re more lost than I thought. No wonder you think the German tree need an F-16. LMAO
You could be getting 20 kills per game every game, if you don’t have a team (as is common for redfor at that BR) then you’re gonna lose badly.
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Yeah, but depends on how and where you get those kills.
If you bag them in CAP (capping), or escorting bombers (make sure they come home), your WR WILL go up, don’t worry.
Even then, I generally think Bluefor win most often just because you have a higher percentage of people engaging in PvE. Either with multiroles or dedicated ground attackers.
I’ve seen redfor teams have way more PvP kills, but still be loosing due to them not stopping bluefor from getting through and striking targets.
Its why winrate is a bad metric for a specific aircraft performance. especially when no official data even exists
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Germany does Need a better 13.3-13.7 jet imo it’s kinda ridiculous we had to wait over a year for the EF-2000 just so we have a competent top tier jet in ARB much less sim in comparison the SU-27, F-16’s, Mirages, and F-15’s The F-4F ICE is Less Maneuverable, has a Pretty Meh Radar overall. has Less Thrust to Weight which means it’s a ton slower than other aircraft of its br and is overall a struggle bus the only argument anyone can really add to why there isnt a better aircraft at that level is because the dev’s could genuinely give less of a shit about what players want or what certain TT’s need look at Japan they are still Struggling at top tier too with a way outdated F-16 and a Sub-par Gripen they should had the F-2 when the F-15E was added at the moment the only reason German air is even somewhat viable to grind is for the EF-2000 and the EF-2000 ONLY Germany’s air is most definitely lack but everyone only care about oh where’s the F-18 where is the SU-30 but Germany does need some new aircraft and that’s that.
That is exactly my point, you could be getting tons of player kills but your winrate can stay bad because the enemy team is doing high ticket impact actions and yours isn’t.
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Yeah, but if you keep shooting enemy F111s, or F4s doing suicide AFB runs, your kill ratio will go up, but your WR will tank, since your actions are irrelevant for the game/team (that’s easy). Again, win CAP and win CAS (that’s hard and takes skill and kit) and your WR WILL go up, regardless of the monkeys you have on the team. It’s you who are the constant of your team.
There has always been a fundamentally silly argument about win rate being detached from the capabilities of the plane and it’s one that lacks understanding of the game mode.
With the release of the EF-2000 for Germany…did the F-15E become worse at bombing ground battles and winning on tickets? Did the F-4F ICE become comparatively worse than it was before? How come my win rate went from around 30% in the F-4F ICE and immediately jumped to 60%+ in the Eurofighter?
NimbalTarget, the other top tier Air SB content creator went from a 20% win rate in the ICE to a 75% win rate in the Eurofighter.
Toastman, a guy who barely dabbles in top tier and is probably the least try-hard of all the War Thunder CCs went from a 100% win rate in the JAS-39C to a 60% win rate in the British Typhoon.
Morvran went from 90% wins in the Gripen to 71% wins in the British Eurofighter.
So what happened? Did red players find out what the objective was? No…they just finally got planes that are good enough for the average player to use and not be completely stomped to oblivion. In practice the Eurofighter doesn’t play much different than the F-15C as far as slinging AMRAAMs
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Which have everything to do with player count and not the capability of the aircraft. If you could have guaranteed equal team numbers for the last 6 months the shift would have been almost non-existent from the addition of the Eurocanards
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Player count is tied to the capabilities of the aircraft. Very few people are going to force themselves to play a plane that they know is much worse than everything else that it faces. This is especially true for the casual gamers that make up the majority of the players in sim.
Heck…this is also why you see a lot of Eurofighter fans absolutely malding anytime they die to the Rafale because they perceive that they are now being treated unfairly because their new special toy isn’t the absolute best at everything in every scenario.
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