At most, you could say our views differ…though I’d say normal gameplay regularly confirms what I say regardless:
I didn’t say mobility was unimportant, I said it was overhyped. I also said “much of the time,” not always.
When you look at vehicles like the M2A2, it’s fast and mobile but armament and armor are poor.
If you look at the /2 Puma, it’s got good mobility, an alright gun (the /4’s 75mm is better) and little armor.
Even the much talked about M18 falls into this with its own alright mobility and decent gun…but it lacks armor and gets tormented by its gun handling often due to its own speed.
Versus the M18, the M36s offer an attractive alernative with heavier firepower and slightly better armor for the exchange of some speed. Better stability comes with the slower speed.
From experience, I’ve seen how speed over all goes for myself and especially others and that’s why I don’t buy into all the hype about it.
Excluding very high (top) tier, which I don’t bother to comment on, I think speedy mobility is generally overemphasized in the triad of characteristics.
I’m not really talking about fighting other mediums. The leopard does alright against other mediums, though T-54/55s have a definite advantage if they happen to use APHE and at range DM13 can struggle with other MBTs.
I’m talking about fighting heavies. The main argument that many people present to argue that the leopard cannot go down in BR is that it would bully heavies. However, dam near any other 8.0 MBT is a FAR more dangerous threat to a heavy tank because the medium has the same or similar firepower as the Leo but cannot be killed with the heavy’s often-solid shot except for weak spots.
And with the small scale of most maps in game at the BR, the mobility of the leopard is not the advantage it would seem to be. With the exception of the Centurions and to lesser extent Shot Kal, the Leo only reaches maybe 5-10km/h over other MBTs. Driver (crew) skill and player map knowledge usually have a bigger impact than that on how quickly someone can reach a position on smaller maps.
Do you really believe that this is more advantageous than being proof against APHE against heavies or in a downtier?
Again, I’m not saying that the Leopard needs to go to 7.7. However, if there is ever another early MBT decompression, it should be left behind the others.
There’s no reason to main APHE in T-54s case, in my opinion risk is far greater than the possible reward.
I’ve used Leopard I quite extensively and had no issues with DM13 going through mediums of it’s BR.
Leopard cannot go down in BR because it would bully everything, not just heavies.
Speaking of heavies, there’s like half a dozen heavies in the 7.0 - 8.0 range and who knows how many mediums/lights, so statistically speaking, you are much more likely to get shot by non-heavy enemy, that’s without even acknowledging how much off-meta higher tiered heavies currently are, which will lead to less people actually spawning one in the match.
I think you are vastly overvaluing armor at that BR.
You don’t need gigantic maps to use your mobility in a right way. Reaching power positions first is really important in the early game.
Sorry to break your bubble, but loads of 7.0 (and even lower) vehicles will have access to APDS/HEAT, so even in full downtiers you are far from protected and your survivability will be nothing more than a dice roll, which is something I wouldn’t rely on.
You also still completely disregard disadvantages many tanks you’ve listed have when compared to Leo I. Not a single mention of bad gun handling, gun depression or reload. I guess those don’t matter as well, right ?
I disagree, when decompression happens, OF-40 and Vickers should move up the most, followed by Leo I alongside many other mediums, while T-54 clones should be left behind.
Those vehicles are simply crippled in multiple areas and are objectively the worst of the bunch.
Yeah, with just a mustard seed of patience gun handling and reload are overrated.
Mobility is by far the most overrated aspect of the Ground triangle.
I’m just going to chalk this up to different play styles. You are probably one of the players who camp a single “power” position all game rather than playing the objectives in the middle. And that’s all right. But it makes sense then that you’d have an overly positive view of the Leo, since that’s all it can do.
Reload time and gun handling are the difference between getting multi-kills and getting traded after your first kill. Those two things are pretty important in quite a lot of playstyles.
Mobility is surely more important than being able to bounce APHE from like 10% of the vehicles you can come across.
You clearly lack the understanding of what power positions are. From those spots you are able to control area(s) that, as an example, are popular routes from spawn to cap points. This means, when you are in control of said position and area(s), enemy presence will be high and they will also have to peek you, thus being in a disadvantageous position from the get go.
Places like that will allow you to have quite a big impact on the game, and on some maps, especially smaller ones, you will also be able to see in (and control) more than one cap point, which is a huge deal on it’s own.
I can’t think of a scenario/playstyle in which something like those T-54 copies will perform better on average than Leopard I, but I’m sure you can, so please do tell.
I’m really interested in what you’ll have to say on that.
I have neither the time nor energy to argue with you about the Leopard 1 on a discussion about an entirely different vehicle. I’ve made my position clear and it is abundantly clear to me that not even an act of god could sway you from your stance. While I still disagree, I respect that. I will not be continuing this conversation.
Have a nice day and enjoy your using your definitely powerful Leopard in totally-not-camping “power positions” that for sure promote more than one playstyle ;)
You have zero arguments remaining and had to resort to the usual “camper” accusations. Your movement is pretty limited and if everything goes well, in most cases, you will find yourself sitting in between cap(s) and their spawn(s), just waiting for their respawns. But sadly, I’m pretty sure you aren’t capable of understanding such a simple concept.
Maps in this game are already small, so it quite surprises me seeing people not being able to learn and pick one of a couple available routes that will yield better results. It’s surely easier to come here and cry how something is bad or OP, while being completely clueless.
I’m still waiting for you to explain me in what playstyle(s) do T-54 and it’s clones excel when compared to Leopard I.
I guess you “won’t be continuing this conversation” since you have no answer to this and backing out is the only (kind of) sensible thing to do.
You literally tried to portray T-54 and it’s clones as superior vehicles to Leopard I, while your only argument is “muh armor”, which in practice doesn’t mean anything unless you are being shot at by like half a dozen tanks from the dying breed of postwar heavies.
Try better next time, at least don’t embarrass yourself with such a hilariously bad takes.
In the screenshots the Panther can barely use the hill to shoot over it, while the M26 can depress the gun much lower. Both tanks are at maximum depression angle. So the Panther:
Can’t use hills with steeper incline to fire from a hull down position
Needs to push more over the hill to shoot a target below it
The IS-6 taking a big L for this br update, adding the D ammunition doesn’t really buff it one bit when the B is vastly superior with it’s angle performance, I mean 7.3 onwards most things aren’t flat. Also the optic sucks big time compared to IS-4M and T-10A. If you do a lot of peek-out-corner and shoot, T-10A absolutely beats the IS-6 since it can fire on the move, imagine I saw an enemy while myself hiding behind a building, the enemy is on the move, then I can casually drive out of the corner and shoot while on the move even when it’s 600m away because I have STAB, if IS-6 I will have to stop and wait three seconds for the gun to settle down. No way the IS-6 is better except for the reverse speed, now they are in the same br lol.
Are you saying the US doesn’t complain? Because i can point you to a bunch of threads and the entire WT Reddit that’s plastered with complaints from the US.
it’s not only U.S mains that complain about Germany, it’s every non German/Russian main that complains about Russia/Germany. Idk why this idea is so hard for you to wrap your head around.
