Yes–you’re right, I’ll refrain from bothering with him.
For the record, as all can see, he started the tangent as he had so many times before. Old @Flak_Dancer did indeed fake the quote, as all of the text was already there until he removed it later to mislead.
You’re right overall: litigating it now is pointless as he already lost this battle eons ago.
The problem with the M26 going up or most other tanks of this adjustment going up isn’t really that they’re going up.
Yeah, they’ll have to fight more vehicles they can’t do anything about, whoops. I’ve been living with that in UK and FR trees for so long I can’t feel anything but schadenfreude.
Additionally I would bemoan that Panthers should have always been on the same BR with the Pershing ever since volumetric became a factor (and arguably before that), but it’s a moot point to make.
However… Tiger 2H isn’t going up.
A tank which absolutely dominates in downtiers, is still extremely competitive if it lands in a 7.7 match, a tank which most tanks it faces either can’t outgun as they have unreliable guns or can’t actually reliably defeat the bastard frontally at all (APCR and APDS? Have you seen how unreliable they are? And on just one part of the turret too, hi volumetric haven’t mentioned you in a while it’s been like two sentences).
I don’t think there’s a more braindead tank to play in the entire game and I absolutely abused R3 T20 when it just released. Well, maybe not as braindead as the 279, but I don’t have a 279; however I do have the 2H as well as most popular 6.7-adjacent vehicles. So yeah, frame of reference is very well there.
Now consider that it will now face MORE vehicles that it was already eating for breakfast. As well as, of all things, a 75 Jumbo that I’m pretty sure would have to resort to light tank tactics to actually do damage to a 2H. A Jumbo. Which is, by the way, easily pennable through UFP by the long 88 as well as the mantlet head on as well as comedically easy overmatch on the lower side. Screw the Pershing, look at the damn Jumbo!
I would be completely fine with most of these had the 2H have also gotten moved. But simply because of it staying at 6.7, I am not fine with it.
Cancel the entire table.
Stop this petty nonsense about individual vehicles and realize the whole system is a mess, Tiger 10.5 and Panther ll are already going to 7.0 which puts them back in range of the Leopard, back in range of the U-SH 405, Raketenautomat, VIDAR, Object 120… all these vehicles that were uptiered in order to prevent this from happening… all whilst all those vehicles are still worse off because of all the extra vehicles they face now.
Leopard 1 gets absolutely shit on left and right now in order to remove it from WW2 tanks, and with these changes it’s back in range of WW2 tanks and it’s the worst the Leopard has ever been and it’s going to be the worst these WW2 tanks have ever been in, Gaijin is actively making things worse for everything and everyone to decompress BR 3 or something, something we never needed, we never wanted, we never asked for and is completely and utterly pointless.
IS-2 and M26 is now back in range of the BMP as well, continue to face Somua’s and IS-6s… it’s absolutely 0 IQ changes.
No, we don’t need a Tiger ll fighting Object 120s again, we don’t need the M26 fighting IS-6s either, we don’t need a Jumbo fighting a Tiger ll, we don’t need any of this.
What we need is actual BR decompression by increasing the BRs, that is the one and only thing we need and the one and only thing that matters and the only thing we should be asking for.
French Jumbo now can face tanks like US T34 and M6A2E1 or Italian M26 vs M103, IS4, etc
But the problem are the germans of course…
Yeah, this planned uptier of 75mm Jumbo really says a lot. The 75mm cannon is already a good source of humor at 5.3 (given how badly outclassed that cannon is by then)…but at 5.7 to face 6.7s, it’s just absurd.
As I’d said earlier in this thread, US 5.X has been getting shafted for a long time and this is proof. (For its part at least, the M82 shells are supposed to get buffs in the Pershings, though it is unclear if the M36s will get this).
I could basically replicate your entire post, with the Tiger 2 (and Jagdtiger) as the subjects: I would be fine with them being 7.0, however this would mean that they would start playing with Leopards, VIDARs, and several former 7.7s again, nullifying the recent decompression of that BR. So, I would be fine with it, if many 8.0s became 8.3.
And of course, the 8.3 players in turn will want the same thing…
You just described global decompression by any other name. Gaijin keeps moving compression spots around.
At the bottom of the spreadsheet it stats both American and Chinese M36 will get the upgraded shell.
Gaijin would have been wiser to integrate those changes (and all of them) in the table and to order the table by BR.
Either way, it’s good news for the US at 5.X…that range has been in better shape before.
That would actually jack it up to the point of being somewhat effective. I’m not surprised Gaijin has just let it languish.
I’ve used both the 853 and 813 m/s versions of M82 and never noticed the difference. The idea that giving the M26 a 12mm penetration buff will compensate for the increase in BR is absurd when considering that it still won’t be able to front-pen the panther or the Tiger II H - a tank that it will now share a BR with.
Air RB is now at 12.3 and desperately needs at least 12.7 so we can have breathing room. Ground RB should be 12.3 to match air RB and even that isn’t enough considering how hard it would be to decompress the 6.0-11.7 range with only two extra BR steps.
That 90mm struggles a bit anyways even at lower BRs. Has great post-pen from all the filler but for something that was designed to take on Panthers it needs a really lucky turret shot to avoid volumetric eating it. Meanwhile its turret isn’t anywhere near as trolly and its hull has a lot more weak spots. So its a tank with worse mobility than the Panther but struggles to outrun or out-shoot them. And compared to the T-44 it has a slower turret traverse, worse overall mobility, and a far weaker UFP, so it can’t engage them in CQC and try to win.
And all that’s also important considering that Gaijin wants to force everyone into CQC where all it takes to die with no recourse is an unlucky turn around a blind corner to come face-to-face with a pre-sited tank.
Also the IS-2 mod 44. The mod 44 now has the D shell, which was not asked. The 44 could be played as a semi-heavy before with a few weakspots and now the 7.3 and 7.7 guns can just lol through the tank. Please dont move the IS-2 mod 44 up.
Honestly I rather face Object 120 than T-54s in my Tiger 2 H, at least the whole tank is a weakspot compare to the credit card size turret cheek of T-54 where is the only part the long 88 can reliable go through, but it wouldn’t bother me that much since I don’t have the Tiger 105, but I will get it anytime I have the chance to, seems like a german with T29 equivalent main cannon.
Until M26 doesn’t have stable way to front pen panther it can’t be whole 0.7 br higher.
Easiest solution would be to buff T33 angled pen to it’s historical values. IRL, it could punch right through the UFP of a Panther at 1000 meters. Meanwhile, M82 was able to punch right through the LFP at nearly the same range.
I know it, a lot of people sent reports. But snail didn’t changed anything.
Hey, they finally buffed M82 out of the M3 gun to it’s actual WW2 shell velocity and thus pen. And they’re trying to move it up. Seems like a perfect time to also buff T33 while they’re at it.
That’s because Gaijin doesn’t take historical data into account to calculate penetration, just their DeMarre-based calculator. I doubt they’ll ever accept bug reports in this regard.
Soviet shells got very good slope modifiers. Why one american can’t?