What you and the others complaining fail to recognize is that the majority of bombers were simply not played much at all before. Due to being such an unpopular class, the development team probably had issues convincing upper management to give the go-ahead with bothering to develop better objectives for them.
The buff made them much more popular to use, and provides the desired justification to management. I too want to see bombers have an actual role in matches (intentionally at fighters’ expense as they’ve ruled the mode for long enough already), but making them playable really did have to happen first.
My stance is that selfish fighter mains are in the way of allowing Air RB to realize its true potential, and always have been.
Therefore I want to see them forcibly knocked off their throne, butchered, and composted for the mode’s future to grow out of. Exactly what they deserve for relentlessly screaming every. single. time. any non-fighter regularly mattered to winning matches until it was neutered like the rest.
So I want vengeance on said fighter mains to reduce them to the enablers of nonfighters they historically were.
Oh there would still be plenty of enjoyment for fighters. Just not for the portion of fighter mains who only care about PvP and nothing else.
It’s those types that I am irate about. I want them to be forced to either defend their nonfighters, lose matches, or have to inefficiently go do the nonfighters’ jobs because they let them die.
The bulk of ordinary fighter users would benefit. The CommunistBalls of the community would not.
I’ve been around these parts for over eleven years, and have seen this game’s potential squandered time and again because someone would rather whine than adapt.
So when the very people who were directly responsible for provoking Snail into cutting down the Air RB mode into a stale dumb deathmatch are now suffering, why WOULDN’T I be happy at such a sight?! They’re getting exactly what they deserve for selfishly butchering half the aircraft in the game.
You can have a gamemode without one major group suffering you know.
Fighter mains are a result of gaijins incompetence of gamemode design and not the cause of it.
Despite wanting better PvE modes and a larger place for attackers and bombers in WT, sentiments like this make me want to disagree with you.
How could that wok without removing PvP or making the game objectively worse? Nuclear escalation has shown that you can have PvE and PvP exist at the same time, with both having different roles to play.
One shouldn’t be forced to defend a player engaging with PvE mechanics to win a match IMO. Doing offensive stuff towards other fighters/bombers is good however.
well you’re a ground main - ofcourse you would want overpowered bomber flight models so you can be invincible to SPAA and bomb whatever targets you wish
They are a result of gaijin’s incompetence, but much of that incompetence was provoked by ceaseless crying from said people and them having a “Snailbrained” reaction to said crying.
I will always blame the whiners more than Snail in cases like this. Especially after seeing the same sort of folk cry for nerf after nerf, never be satisfied, then proceed to complain about how stale Air RB mode is while being completely oblivious to the fact that the staleness is a result of their own crying.
I have less than zero sympathy for them.
I want my nonfighters restoratively buffed to their old potency, and their objective importance increased while the diehard fighter mains who rallied against them are hog-tied and force-fed that new reality, with exactly zero ability to undo said changes. They deserve to be just as helpless as their nerfs made me years ago.
You don’t need to remove PvP - you need to make PvP intentionally unable to win games and be horrendously suboptimal. Like the majority of real operations that required blowing something up on the ground to achieve anything of substance.
War Thunder’s problem has always been that PvP alone is even able to win games by itself, which leaves nonfighters with effectively zero purpose outside edge cases of airfield camping or spaceclimbing. There is no room to make nonfighters matter when fighters do not need them to win.
Fighters do need to be forced to do such. Otherwise nonfighters will forever be bereft of purpose, because fighters do not need their input to win games.
That is what I mean by “knocking fighter mains off their throne” - making PvP intentionally incapable of winning games by itself. Then the very diehards whose screaming is directly responsible for the mode’s staleness are now forced to either 1) defend their nonfighters or 2) inefficiently try to do the nonfighters’ objectives after the PvP portion of the match. Both of which said diehards have expressed over the years they hate to do, which is the point - punishment for their past behavior.
A key piece of groundwork has been laid to diversify the game mode with this damage model change - bombers are no longer free kills. Games now last considerably longer to where objectives other than air-to-air PvP are actually able to matter more often.
And in my own BV238 I have personally gotten games with 6 air kills and 30 ground target kills. Mind you I wasn’t even trying to kill them, but they refused to leave me alone, and paid the price.
No I am anything but. I play all vehicle types - planes, tanks, boats, and ships. I want all vehicle types to actually matter to match outcome, and single-vehicle-type mains to pay up for the damage they have inflicted on the game’s overall health. I want bullshit nerfs undone, the development ethos to move away from “nerf first” to “nerf last” regarding solving game problems, removal of AI-controlled weaponry from player vehicles, among many other changes.
I want to actually fix the game’s problems, including those whose source is an overly whine-prone community, paired with intentional humiliation of the folk driving said forum flame wars while force-feeding them the things they hate out of spite to actually fix the game’s broader issues.
That’s impossible to do. You can’t win on pve if you don’t exist (same applies to real operations: if you’re dead you’re not succeeding in your operation, and likewise, not achieving anything of substance).
Rather than making pve players semi-invulnerable (even if that is the case, you’ll just trade with another bomber anyways), in a gamemode where you want objectives to matter, you need to be able to respawn. Just like in ground mode.
This will actually let you push objectives, and force fighter players defend theirs (if they want to win).
We already have that though, in the form of simulator mode.
I think we should send all pve players to sim mode, where objectives are actually important and are the sole win condition, and turn Air RB to team deathmatch.
Edit:
Thought about how to make the role of pve planes more important in the context of limited spawn lives (1). You make tickets the sole win condition. So even if you defeat all enemy players, if your tickets are lower and you’re unable to get them lower than the enemy team tickets, you lose.
You’re not going to be able to, as long as Gaijin’s goal is to pump money out of the playerbase.
In genuine honesty - I don’t actually care what someone mains under normal circumstances. When I decide to care is when Player A is deliberately ignoring either an entire vehicle class (or several) or deliberately ignoring a large part of the intended job of the class they’re using, then complaining about the problems their own choices are causing, and proceed to cry to the developers for nerfing what they happen to not like, after which the developers actually proceed to do such.
A fighter main who openly accepts the limitations of their preference without wanting to see non-fighters’ ability to matter harmed in any way is completely fine.
A fighter main who says “If I have to for any reason abort a fun dogfight I am having to go save/kill some bot-farmer scum or spacebar warrior trash, or lose the match - that is the day I am uninstalling War Thunder” (posted by xBromanx on the Old Forum), meanwhile…THIS sort of attitude and intentional desire to butcher everyone else’s fun simply because they “don’t want to deal with it” is NOT OKAY.
I feel the exact same way about systemic issues in other game modes. SPAAGs hunting tanks, the CAS debate, various ammunition nerfing on all sorts of tanks, barrel damage, cupola shots, AI gunners on any platform (flying or floating), I could go on and on and on. Every single one of these should be a common-sense thing to just fucking solve already, but each is being kept alive by some extremist sect wanting something unrealistic (like SPAAGs being given only HE rounds, or the addition of Tank-Only mode, or keeping barrel and cupola BS because “wut about MUH JUMBO?!”, or AI gunners because “but then I have to multitask!”, etc.) to where I view the people keeping these messes alive as more of a problem than the messes they refuse to intelligently think about, let alone fix.
Something you should know about me - I will never check someone’s stat-card, because I refuse to intentionally engage in any form of stat-shaming. I will always view anyone resorting to stat-shaming as “buddy, you’ve already lost the argument, have no straws left to grasp onto, and are now resorting to insults - congrats, you played yourself.”
Not really - if a team with more fighters manages to win the air duel but loses the attackers and bombers on their own team, and also was so overly-focused on said air duel that the enemy team accumulated an insurmountable ticket advantage before being wiped out, that’s called a pyrrhic victory. In WT, that should be a loss despite one team “winning” the aerial duel.
All that leads to is an endless stream of respawns feeding a single continuous “singularity hairball” slowly migrating around the map. With infinite respawns its never possible to truly CLEAR the airspace so the nonfighters can do their jobs afterwards.
No, Air RB should be dragged, kicking and screaming, into being PvE-focused, whether the “Toxic Fighter Mains” like it or not. All planes can do PvE, but outside batshit-insane DM buffs not all planes can do PvP. And even after the Bomber changes, the majority of bombers are still bad or at best trade with their assailants.
Toxic Fighter Mains bled all the flavor out of the game mode by repeatedly screaming bloody murder whenever any attacker or bomber was able to regularly win games if left unattended. They need to pay for their actions, and suffer as the mode is ripped away from them.
There are dozens of bombers the game has not added due to them having no purpose for so many years and the “Fighter Mafia” being so lockstep against giving the “spacebar warriors” anything at all. Well now, the majority of unique fighters have been added to most tech trees, increasingly more modern jets are being added to everyone with massive multirole loadouts that have currently zero purpose, and the very “Fighter Mafia/Toxic Fighter Mains” who caused the mode’s current staleness are FINALLY burning out of the game enough to where the counter-argument to pivoting the mode to a PvE focus is evaporating. So no, those people should NOT be handed ANYTHING.
A PvE-focused mode can still have fun PvP dogfights - as long as PvP alone is intentionally unable to win matches, then proper space for PvE planes to matter will always exist. I don’t hate air-to-air PvP - I hate people who think only that deserves to matter because “skill.”
I’m not asking you to statshame actually. I’m just asking to look at the names of their top 10 most played vehicles. There’s a difference between “I can see you have a negative KD in Bf109F4 and I’m better than u. Skill issue pal” and “I noticed you play the Bf 109 F-4 a lot. Do you main fighters perchance?”
Seeing your other points - i agree from a holistic perspective that the lack of immersion is one of the most underrated downsides of wt outside SB modes.
Having mission objective like “sink those carriers”, “destroy those bridges” or “kill those pillboxes” were the reason for aerial warfare - bombers and strike fighters are decisive to fulfil these goals are basically just long range artillery - while the job of fighters was either to protect or to kill them.
So like the RAF in the BoB refused to take off when chain home detected just incoming fighters, the LW did the same (see Bud Anderson memoirs). That the PvE mission goals in wt are just there to ensure PvP action is more than obvious. Every MMO shooter works with engagement optimized goals.
Even as i admire your passion - a short reminder: You play a video game, not a serious simulator. Gaijin primarily reacts to demands (or creates them on purpose) in order to earn money, not because they are passionate gamers.
