I am aware of this, but I dont really see the relevancy, if we are talking about 2 identical aircraft, firing under near enough identical conditions, then missile performance does matter greatly.
If at low alt, the FGR2 might have a marginally higher top speed, but not enough to negate the missile difference more than a tiny amount. At higher alts, then there is no difference in launch conditions, because the spey engines are only better at low alts.
Right?
So is a notable upgrade?
Catching an unawares bad player is the main reason I get kills in ground attackers. Doesnt make the ground attackers good in A2A combat.
If the only viable use case of a weapon is ratting, then its not an overly stronger weapon.
Except they actually do though. Quite a major one, in how you can actually play the aircraft
If I take an FGR2 into an ARB match right now, im sitting at 150 ft, flanking wide and waiting for the early game furball to occur so I can dive in and rat a few kills at close range. Im not going to high alt, im not going to try and joust, im not going actively engage any target. Im going to stay defensive until I can get into close range and then third party.
In the F3, with viable performance SARH, im at 15k ft firing off Skyflash STs early game and usually walking away with 1-2 kills.
There is a reason imo, why the FGR2 is 11.3 in ASB and not 12.0 alongside the US F-4s… and its all to do with the difference in missile performance.
All the points you outlined dont really matter at this point, as the usual gameplay of that thing is to spam off now 6 fakours and die/run back to AF. If it had 999 CM’s and AESA it would most probably remain this way. It really is just a feedback loop at this point:
Due to fakours IRIAF has outstanding K/B
“wow look at how good it is performing”
BR gets raised
As far as spamming fakours and dying goes, absolutely nothing has changed
Due to fakours IRIAF has outstanding K/B
…
You could just put it at 14.7 right here right now and it’s stats wouldnt suffer much, if at all.
People downplaying 7F/Ms are crazy when you can engage 5km rear / 10-20km headon with 7Fs, but you can only do 2km rear / 5-10km headon with DF sparrows
I would agree with that, if the Tornado wasn’t at the same BR
Everytime I see someone use a Spey Phantom it’s either someone trying to spade it and failing miserably or it’s someone that has spaded it and is performing well with it and well, the former is way more common than the latter.
I think that only the J(UK) should get the STs, as it is the last service variant, the others should just keep the old Skyflashes
Not sure, I’m more inclined to agree than to disagree. I think without a BR increase AIM-9J/Ps would be the right choice, but sadly that would be an unrealistic option.
We can agree on that. The MiG-23MLs shouldn’t have been dropped to 11.7
I’m not downplaying it’s effectiveness, at least not in raw numbers. All I’m saying is that most of it doesn’t mean anything in your typical match.
We could go on and on about long range kinematics, time to hit, preferable engagements, etc., but it won’t mean much when most Phantom pilots will never see 20k ft in altitude or an “actual” BVR launch. The typical Phantom pilot on both sides will fly straight towards each other, fire when they see each other’s markers, and die in the ensuing fireball.
At least in my experience. Maybe you guys have vastly different matches than I see up there.
My problem with that is that the majority of plays that the FG.1 and FGR.2 get is people trying to spade them
Almost everyone that wants to play Britain at 12.0 jumps into the Tornado
Vehicle: AH-1S/AH-1S Kisarazu/AH-1F Gamemode: Ground Realistic BR Change: 9.7 —> 9.7 (give flares) Reason: These Cobras without flares at this BR are surely weaker than Tzefa D/E in countermeasures and electronics, so I propose to give them the option to also take flares instead of chaff. Without flares it’s difficult to balance them: without flares these helicopters are surely weaker than their counterparts, but on 9.3 they will be surely one of the strongest (maybe not so strong due to the poor ATGMs).
But why though? (as in "why are people choosing the F3 over the FGR2 to such a degree, by all accounts the FGR2 should be the better dogfighter, and that is usually what matters more in ARB at the moment)
Yes the F3 is probably under BRed (Compression makes it messy, but so does everything) but even if it was 12.3. I dont think that would actually change much.
Most would still pick the F3s better top speed, missile loadout, CM load, radar and RWR. Meanwhile the FGR2 gets outranged by phantoms at the same BR, that also happen to get other tools too, like Napalm.
Vehicle: HSTV-L & RDF-LT (give Delta-6 APFSDS)
Gamemode: GRB
BR Change: 12.0》》》12.7
Reason: XM885 has lackluster performance and often fails to penetrate. Giving the HSTV-L and RDF-LT Delta 6 rounds would make side-shots more consistent and give the US viable light tanks and a different playstyle at top tier, where it is basically limited just to the abrams. Delta 6 would still struggle to penetratw tanks at 12.7 frontally, so the change would not make either tank OP.
It would be, but the core point here, and the point that Gaijin really needs to acknowledge is that the FGR2, FG1 and especially F4JUNK are not 1 for 1 identical to the F-4S and F-4J(US).
Their current stance is that they are, and ANY buff would result in a BR increase. Despite clear and notable differences.
yes, the FGR2 holds some advantages, but overall, the US ones hold more.
Well for one, we have a thing called air spawn - so you already spawn in at high speed where the engines make less of a difference.
Then, there’s the fact it’s still a hard wing phantom, so with your upgraded engine you have the same turn performance as… an F-4E. The plane 0.7 br lower.
And at 12.0, the stuff you can win in a dogfight are slim. Other F-4s? Tornados? Sure. F-5s? MiG-23s? God forbid the 4th gen stuff just 1 br step away? All of these further diminishes the so called “advantage” provided by the engines.
Frankly the “better flight performance” isn’t enough to make up for the mediocre missiles it has.
