The J-10 does not have the worst airframe
China does have two of some of the worst airframes. Wouldn’t J-15T be the worst one out of 14.3-14.7 airframes?
I don’t like the Sukhoi in general, so sure, the J-15 has a terrible airframe, but not the J-10s.
Keep in mind when I talk about worst or best airframes, I don’t mean just flight performance, I mean things like countermeasures, radar performance, etc. so pretty much everything about the plane except its weaponry.
Again, the J-10 is not that bad. You don’t use it at long range, treat it like a Gripper. Flank, fire from behind or the side, or force a dogfight. You can easily defeat a F-15 that way. Su-30s are iffy, but in a regular turn fight you have the upper hand. F-18s are quite slow and can turn into a UFO, so if you bait them, you can easily fly out of there while the F-18 struggles to catch up, and that’s an easy energy trap. With the J-10A you have R-73s still, so you can still go for the surprise shot (I prefer R-73s/PL-5EIIs over Pythons/PL-8s). Grippens and F-16s are going to be an even match. Grippens have the superior turn time, but they lose energy quite quickly and acceleration is not the greatest. If you can evade the first three circles, and he doesn’t leave, you got the victory. F-16, same sort of deal.
No one is saying it’s bad, it’s still arguably one of the worst platforms though. Atleast other countries have better airframe options so it’s only right for China to get PL-15s.
As much as I would love for China to have great equipment, I don’t think giving it the PL-15 is the right idea. We have gone down this route before, where we replace nerfed equipment with new things, leaving the equipment still absolutely dreadful. As I mentioned before, the PL-12s are the equivalent of AIM-120Bs/Cs, and the PL-12As are on par with the AIM-120C-4 (so slightly better than the in game AIM-120C).
We need to buff the PL-12 and PL-12A back to where it should be, not leave it in obscurity just because we got the option of a better missile. Remember, there are people grinding China, and will still be forced to use the PL-12s. Why should they be punished just because we started the game earlier?
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Except if that was an option, then Gaijin would have done something by now, no? But it seems Gaijin may be intent on not doing anything and have shut down all bug reports so far.
The PL-15 being added now or in the future doesn’t make a difference, they’ll still add it in a dreadful state and then ask for people to submit bug reports if they want to make any differences. Only thing delaying its addition does is make PL-15’s addition even more dreadful later down the road.
Gaijin doesn’t know how to run their game, that’s why we on the forums are constantly on them to do things. Sometimes for the right, sometimes for the wrong. In this case, buffing our missiles is in the right. Unfortunately, no one really plays China on the English speak forums (surprise surprise, we are all nationalists when it comes to our in-game nations for the most part), so while we could technically demand change on the English forums (and seeing as how the NATO nations are up in arms about the similar AIM 120 need, we could get them on our side to demand buffs), it might be smarter to lobby the Chinese speaking forums for buffs as well.
Advocating for the PL-15 right now is a bad idea. Hell, look at what they did to the AIM-120D. Want a better example? F-14 was the best jet in the game, and then they nerfed it, hard. And even when other nations were finally allowed counters to the F-14, it was still nerfed. Same as the Puma (the top tier one, not the WWII light tank). There was nothing like the Puma when it came in, no counter, no nothing. Then they nerfed it and kept sending them up. Even now when we have counters to it (the Israeli Nashorn, Hungarian KF-41, Swedish CVs, Russian BMPT), the Puma is still pathetically sad. The WORST thing to be in War Thunder is first. The PL-15, if you get your way, will be the first missile like it. Sure, we will get a few months of enjoyment, but the forums will demand nerf after nerf after nerf. And guess what will happen? Your PL-15 will become like the F-14, the Puma, and every other over-powered equipment: sad and desolate, even when everyone else has Meteors and all that.
The hell am I doing wrong trying to evade front aspect sparrows. I swear I have far better odds evading arh missiles
they were only better at close range
anything else like range and target chasing the pl 12 performance was very poor
Which is what you want 99% of the time in War Thunder.
Its why Aim-120C5s are still not always taken by people and instead they take Aim-120Bs because they are better at close range, but weaker at range and chasing people.
Likewise MICA EM is the strongest in-game at the moment yet is one of the shortest ranged missiles at 14.7
Have you forgotten about the video above? Pl12 super bad in close distance against good player
Meanwhile the poor Derbies/R Darters still not being favoured despite being quite good within the 10km range
They did pl-12s dirty, they cant leave them in that state, i dont think we’re that far off from the mext fox 2 meta however and if EW gets added together with it the j15t might actually become good.
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Idk about poor, last time i played with buffed derbies they were very strong.
though issue is the current meta is keeping people at distance and the PL 12 just could not compete
it looses too much speed and has way to much drag
also 90 % of the time you want to avoid getting to close unless you put yourself in that situation
Buddy i have chinese tech tree that don’t mean they should start adding anything at anytime let it come when the times comes for it rn what we need is buff to pl12 nothing else
They just nerfed him. What kind of buff are we even talking about? Do you know the reason why they did this?
Because Gaijin is incapable of good decisions? That’s my answer.