Petition to increase range and accuracy on MANPAD based systems against Helicopters

[GhostOfJerusalem]

As of 1.10.2023 the stinger family missile is incapable of locking onto a helicopter beyond the range of 2 kilometers. The strela system is much worse off in range.

This is not only frustrating, but also unrealistic here is how:

many Helicopters offer the ability to install a heat shield. While this can hide the Heat from the front of the turbine, it cannot hide the heat of the blades and especially their tips.

modern IR missiles are able to pic up the Signature of said blade tips.
this is not depiced in warthunder what so ever as far as i am concerned.
This might be the reason we see such a stark underperformance of Stinger/Manpad missiles vs Helicopters.

Not only is this mechanic not modeld but exaust air is also not concidered: as you can see on this Chinook, the turbine has a heatshield, but when hovering the hot air will be spread around the aircraft. Especially on Cold weather maps this should make a giant difference of temerature against background.

even inside a FLIR picture with less dynamic range than the images before you can still see that the blades and especially the tips are way hotter than ambient on this Apache:

again all examples show are to be applied when there is a background to the helicopter.
with no terrain behind the helicopter an image looks like this:

as you can see the helicopter is clearly visible and has a good S/N.

then as our final IR phaenomenon:

even with a heat shield the heat is still also primary and secondary reflected in varios other deriections off off the blades and fuselage.

now bear with me here; this is jsut the Tip of the iceberg… modern Stinger system missiles ( and from now on im only talking about them becasue i am not that familiar with other missile families)
not only use IR, but also UV guidance ( the other side of spectrum from visible light)

the thing with UV is ITS EVERYWHERE even at night… so what you are seeing with the next picture is not heat… but basically the “lack of background UV”

( i cannot find any airplane related stuff on this topic)

so please go ahead and correct me but in my eyes… if you can see smoke that you cant even see in the first picture… you should be avle to see a helicopter…

again UV is also not implemented as of now… but absoluteley shoud…

Edit: UV is implemented butonly in the IRCCM of the Stingers

sources for UV:
Ultraviolet Imaging with Low Cost Smartphone
Sensors: Development and Application of a
Raspberry Pi-Based UV Camera (this is where the image is also from) they are measureing the abcence of UV becasue of a Gas that is UV absorbant)

[FlyingDoctor]

This is a based suggestion to be put forth, even just about the heat signature points.

Longer ranges on variants could be a thing if they do have the actual range.

[FlyingDoctor]

@Z_nimble_Z

Gaijin wont ever fix something that affects the sales of their premium vehicles.

That’s said so much that it’s becoming a tired excuse to hate on Gaijin and the business of things…

@Z_nimble_Z

Even less people would buy premium helicopters if they were suddenly easier to kill.

You’d have to wonder if they even are still selling them in the rate you think they are with all the complaining people do about the game, it’s a wonder they find time to play it.

[Z_nimble_Z]

@FlyingDoctor

That’s said so much that it’s becoming a tired excuse to hate on Gaijin and the business of things…

yeah, because it’s true. That has been gaijins modus operandi since day one. Just because you don’t like it doesnt make it not true.

@FlyingDoctor

You’d have to wonder if they even are still selling them in the rate you think they are with all the complaining people do about the game, it’s a wonder they find time to play it.

Take a look at the Premium British Harrier, for example. They introduced it at a low BR (it did decently at the time), fixed it almost immediately and then sales dropped off completely once the people that owned it vocally spammed the forum with how absolutely trash it was at it’s new BR. 6 months later they lowered it again because it got decimated and they wanted people to start buying it again.
That’s one example, of many.

[FlyingDoctor]

@Z_nimble_Z

yeah, because it’s true. That has been gaijins modus operandi since day one. Just because you don’t like it doesnt make it not true.

Just because you all repeat it, doesn’t make it true either…

@Z_nimble_Z

Take a look at the Premium British Harrier, for example. They introduced it at a low BR (it did decently at the time), fixed it almost immediately and then sales dropped off completely once the people that owned it vocally spammed the forum with how absolutely trash it was at it’s new BR. 6 months later they lowered it again because it got decimated and they wanted people to start buying it again.
That’s one example, of many.

That’s not how the BR changes work… When the BRs are modified it’s based on the performance of the craft…

I’ve heard of people using thier squadrons to tank a vehicles winrate/killrate to make them drop the BR, which aligns more with the reasoning on why it dropped.

‘but many reasons’ too… Same deal.

[Z_nimble_Z]

@FlyingDoctor

When the BRs are modified it’s based on the performance of the craft…

That is basically exactly what I said.
It did well, it got it’s BR moved up where it could not compete, it tanked the sales of the Harrier, and they reduced it again. Had it not been a premium vehicle they wouldn’t have even bothered reducing it’s BR again.
I do love this game but you would have to be blind or only a casual once a month type player to not notice the purposeful powercreep they introduce every patch via premiums and then change the premiums around once its had its fill and they are pleased with it’s sales.
It is highly unlikely they will do anything that will blatantly affect the sales of new and existing premiums since that is their bread and butter.
How many people told their friends not to buy the A-10 and Su25 after they got decimated in top tier by SPAA? You think it’s merely a coincidence that all the missile SPAA gets nerfed into the ground after all the premium strike aircraft that were recently added spent 6+ months getting destroyed? That had to affect sales.

Buffing existing stinger/mistral etc etc systems is very unlikely for the time being or until by some miracle gaijin realizes less and less people are playing top tier due to CAS being basically unstoppable at the moment.

In the end though this is the cycle of gaijin, make one thing so overpowered that everyone pays to get it via GE or $ or what have you. Spend 6 months letting those people have fun and then introducing new things or nerfing those things into the ground so that something else is now considered OP.

[FlyingDoctor]

‘basically’ you said gaijin do it to promote sales, which is just an assumption…

My point is that irregardless of it being premium or not, the BRs are altered on the success rates of the vehicle, more than encouraging people to buy them.

[Z_nimble_Z]

@FlyingDoctor

more than encouraging people to buy them.

You honestly think the VIDAR just got whoopsie daisied into 7.7? Lol, lmao even.
Get back to me in 6 months when its at 8.3 or 8.7 after has fulfilled their sales need.

[FlyingDoctor]

By 6 months, the metrics gauging its effectiveness would’ve panned out.

Not everything is about a moneygrab as you’d want it to be, merely to paint the company out as bad.

[FlyingDoctor]

You can think that all you like, I just play the game, and have been here for a long time.

I don’t get all speculatory and assumptive on what the company does because I don’t care. The way everyone makes up these theories and throw them out like candy to the aggrieved, makes for a very vocal 1%.

That’s all.

It doesn’t take much to rile an audience into a myth, then they’ll repeat that myth because they keep seeing it by confirmation bias, but they ignore any other reason for it, and keep passing it out as fact.

Then you end up with people who are still trying to make out that the ‘boycott’ did anything and they threaten to do it again, even though they aren’t the ones controlling it…

That’s the reality of this sort of thing.

[FlyingDoctor]

Damn, well, if you want to be that way about it, I’ve been here for the entire 10 years, I have 7 years in my daily logins and I’ve bought a LOT of premium time and a lot of premium vehicles…

None of which was driven by my suffering, and it was all just for the love of the game.

Funny that…

[Z_nimble_Z]

I’m not being any way about it. I have my opinion, you have yours. Simple as. No need to complicate it since we clearly don’t agree.

[FlyingDoctor]

You were the one who flexed your years mate, that’s the ‘way’ I was referring to.

And matter of fact, I’m up over 8 years of dailies… Get on my level…

[markimash]

Manpads are most likely nerfed. Stingers can lock helis no more than 2.5km out while they can lock an attack drone 3km out. Unless the heat shields reduce their heat signiture to the point that the front of a drone is hotter

[Aurelian_ROW]

+1 would be a great improvement to the current meta

[FlyingDoctor]

You’re the one bringing your years into it though, that’s your problem…

You assume that the company is doing this to merely cashgrab, but you ignore that other vehicles have the same happen to them and that it’s based on the same metric… Thier performance…

And when a new vehicle is brought in people have trouble killing it, and people have trouble using it, and as they start getting better at it, then the BR starts needing to be changed.

But you know, it’s easier to assume that Gaijin are evil, and want to make money and all that, because everyone says that all the time when they’re upset.

I say this as the common gripe is Gaijin, always… Any counter is met with outrage.

Servers? Your connection… Died? You did it… Didn’t kill it? You didn’t hit it right… All met with angst and upset players… It’s just so amazing that no matter what happens, it’s just not the player and not the usage…

(I stand by my statements in response to the assumptions that it’s all about the company being bad, because the actual issue with players, is that players are fed this anti-gaijin nonsense on the regular and that feeding of nonsense leads players to be UNEDUCATABLE in respect of ANYTHING towards fighting thier way out of the paper bag they reside in. Re: ODL, ‘bias’, ‘server issues’, and every other ‘reason’ under the sun to not try and get past a problem)

[Z_nimble_Z]

Are you unable to read english? what are you struggling with here?
why are you being so childish?
I mentioned I had 10 years of experience that led me to believing what I believe? In what way is that a flex? You have the same amount of years and came to a different conclusion. End of discussion. Keep the discussion on topic or stop replying because at this point you’re just going to get a forum warning

[Z_nimble_Z]

Got it, so you can’t read and are just looking for someone to fight with. Go outside and touch grass, “mate”.

[FlyingDoctor]

If you can’t respect my opinion, and understand that I can comment as well, you’re the one who needs to go ‘touch grass ‘mate’’…

[FlyingDoctor]

Yea nah nah, stop replying bruh… Go touch that grass…