Panzerkampfwagen T-34/88 747 (r)

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How would you like to see T-34/88 747 (r) in-game?
  • As a Tech-Tree Vehicle
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Special thanks to Igor Zheltov from https://t34inform.ru/ for transcribing the handwritten remarks in the AFVs registry of the 73rd Tank Battalion into russian text, provide further context of said document and identifying which T-34 parts were not of Soviet origin. Without his assistance, I would not have been able to triangulate that T-34-85 in the video as the T-34-88 in the Soviet registry.
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Recently, I came across two Latvian Newsreels ( Courland (German: Kurland), Latvia 1945, Redzi, dzirdi Latviju! ) about the German surrender in Courland in May 1945. The footage showed a T-34-85 with a weird gun in the video. After some digging, that tank can be identified as the T-34-88, a Soviet recaptured German-captured T-34-85 being retrofitted with an 88 mm gun, listed in a Soviet archived AFV registry record published on Beutepanzer Facebook page

The said document from Beutepanzer

Description: Document confirming the existence of the T-34 tank with a cannon caliber 8.8 cm CAMO file№ 1474v. Inventory 11353. Fond 38 (GABTU RKKA)

Designation

The only known designation of this tank was the T-34-88, from the Soviet document previously mentioned. Despite the Germans retrofitted it, T-34-88 was not mentioned in any known German written record. Although, as per previous German naming practice, it could be designated as Panzerkampfwagen T-34/88 747(r) or Panzerkampfwagen T-34/85 747(r) mit 8,8/8,5 cm Kw.K. L/56, for now, the Soviet T-34-88 is the only historically accurate designation.

More Pictures

(Click to show)

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T-34-88 Features

Main Gun

From the 50 mm bulges at each side of the gun collar, it can be determined that the T-34-88 was originally a T-34-85 with S-53 manufactured in Factory No. 183 before July 1944. The main gun barrel was cut, and a new gun tube was inserted into it. Given that only the gun tube, not the gun shield, has been altered, the S-53 recoil system would most likely remain intact, but its gun breech would be bored out to allow the loading of German 88 mm ammunition.

Source:Галерея фото Т-34-85 * T-34-85 tanks photogallery

Two diagrams showing the detailed look of the S-53 gun collar on Zavod. #183 production Spring '44 T-34-85.

Source: Все виды Т-34. Часть 2: с 1944 до 1945 | Пикабу

Source: T-34-85 Turret Identification

Converting 85 mm guns into 88 mm was not a one-time thing. Germans had been converting hundreds of captured Soviet 76.2 mm and 85 mm anti-aircraft guns into 88 mm anti-aircraft guns and issuing them to air defence units. However, the supply of their original 76.2 mm and 85 mm ammunition was limited. Since the characteristics of the captured guns were very similar to those of the German 88 mm AA Gun, Germany decided to convert the Soviet AA guns so that they could use German 88 mm AA ammunition.

According to "L.Dv.T. 1127", this conversion was carried out in the following two ways:

  1. Reaming the gun tube to 88 mm; and (Ger. Aufgebohrt)

  2. Boring out the gun jacket, reinforcing the springs of the equilibrators, and inserting an 8.8 cm Flak 18 gun tube into the gun jacket. (Ger. Umgeseelt)

Ballistic performance comparison between 7,62/8,8 cm, 8,5/8,8 cm AA Gun and 8,8 cm Flak 8.8

Source: Waffen Arsenal So39 - Beuteflak bei der Wehrmacht 1939-1945

8,5/8,8cm Flak M.39 (r) muzzle brake was installed on the inserted gun tube.

T-34-88 - Imgur

By comparing it with the T-34-85 (Ruby) 3D model from World of Tanks, using the front idle wheel as a size reference, the 88 mm gun tube was slightly longer than the ZiS-S-53 (4645 mm).

T-34-88 - Imgur (3)

As the photos indicate, the inserted guntube most likely an Umgeseelt 85/88 mm guntube (4,930 mm) instead of that of 52-K (4,693 mm), D-5T (4,386 mm), S-53 (4,645 mm), ZiS-S-53 [improved S-53] (4,645 mm), or Aufgebohrt 85/88 mm (4,380 mm). As the new gun tube length would be the same as that of the 8.8 cm Flak 18, their ballistic performance would be identical.

Source: https://tanks.gg/

Turret

Compared to the D-5T gun, the S-53 had a more compact breech, which allowed for the S-53 turret to be redesigned into a three-man turret, allowing an extra crew to share the commander’s gunner’s duties. The first ammunition rack was moved from beneath the floor into the turret, and a rotating floor plate was introduced, allowing the loader to move with the turret without constant reposition. A shell casing catcher was added beneath the gun.

The Roof of the Zavod. #112’s prod. 1943 T-34-85 (Top) and Zavod. #183 prod. Spring '44 T-34-85{T-34-88} (Down).

T-34-88 - Imgur (4)

The commander’s cupola was noticeably moved further back, along with, to a lesser extent, the loader’s hatch and the ventilators. The commander’s cupola on early 1944 production turrets is identical to the one used on the 1943 production T-34-76, as well as on the SU-85 and SU-100.

Source:The T-34-85 in WWII: A Closer Look - missing-lynx.com

Ammunition

Since there are no known German documents indicating that Germany had the practice of converting Soviet 85 mm anti-air guns into Kw.K. configuration, the main gun on the T-34-88 would most likely have used the percussion-primed 88×571 mmR Flak shell, rather than the electrically primed 88×571 mmR Kw.K. 36 shell.

T-34-88 should be able to fire all ammunition available for 8.8 cm FlaK 18/36/37

Service History

T-34-88 in German Service

As the T-34-88 was handed over to the USSR, it must have survived the Courland Pocket. In the final months of the Courland Pocket, the only German unit using captured tanks was 16 Armee Panzer Abteilung (Beute) (A.Pz.Abt.16 (Beute)).

Source: Panzer Tracts 19-02 page 19-96

According to the Deployed Units Overview Table from “Unterlagen der Operationsabteilung IIIb des Generalstabs des Heeres bei OKH: Lagekarte der Heeresgruppe Kurland, einschließlich Übersicht der eingesetzten Kräfte.” from 11 March to 28 March 1945.

On 5 March 1945, A.Pz.Abt.16 (Beute) had only an operational captured tank and two operational captured assault guns.

Source: Российско-германский проект по оцифровке германских документов в архивах Российской Федерации | Дело 227. Документы отдела IIIb оперативного управления Генерального штаба сил при ОКХ: карта положения группы армий «Курляндия» - по состоянию на 11.03.1945 г., М 1: 300 000, включая обзор использованных сил.

After the Sixth Battle of Courland Pocket, by 25th March 1945, it lost all the operational tanks and assault guns, while restoring four inoperable captured tanks to operational condition.

Source: Российско-германский проект по оцифровке германских документов в архивах Российской Федерации | Дело 244. Документы отдела IIIb оперативного управления Генерального штаба сил при ОКХ: карта положения группы армий «Курляндия» - по состоянию на 28.03.1945 г., М 1: 300 000, включая обзор использованных сил.

Source: The Courland Pocket 1944-45 FULL BATTLESTORM History Documentary

On 15th April 1945, A.Pz.Abt.16 (Beute) disappeared from official records.

Source: Российско-германский проект по оцифровке германских документов в архивах Российской Федерации | Дело 250. Документы отдела IIIb оперативного управления Генерального штаба сил при ОКХ: карта положения группы армий «Курляндия» - по состоянию на 21.04.1945 г., М 1: 300 000, включая обзор использованных сил.

According to the newsreel footage “Courland (Ger. Kurland), Latvia 1945” from Dailymotion, the four operational captured tanks were three German modified T-34-76 and the T-34-88.

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Another view of T-34-88 from another newsreel footage named “Padomju Latvija Nr. ⅚” filmed in May 1945, from the National Archives of Latvia.

Given that all four T-34s were first listed on the record on 25th March 1945, after the final (sixth) battle of Kurland ended on 23rd March 1945. All those T-34s were very unlikely to participate in any combat action before Army Group Courland surrendered.
Source: The Courland Pocket 1944-45 FULL BATTLESTORM History Documentary

T-34-88 in Soviet Service

On 8th May 1945, Army Group Courland surrendered to the Red Army. They handed over all the operational and non-operational AFVs in the Stende Station, Latvia.

Source: Архивы Санкт-Петербурга. (1945, May). Пункт сбора немецких автомашин на станции Стенде (панорама из 2-х снимков). ЦГАКФФД СПб. Опись (книга учёта) фотодокументов 1АР-8 Ед.хр.14306 [Photograph]. Архивы Санкт-Петербурга.

The 51st Army of the Red Army accepted the equipment handed over after 9th May 1945. The 174th Evacuation Company of the 51st Army repainted the T-34-88 and gave it a new tactical number of “К20.”.

“Yegoshin Leonid Vasilyevich at the T-34-85 with code K20. 174th evacuation company.” Source:Галерея фото Т-34-85 * T-34-85 tanks photogallery

Source: 51-я армия - страница клуба "Память" Воронежского госуниверситета

Source: Сборник боевых документов/27/27 — Викитека

According to the AFVs registry of the 73rd Tank Battalion, the battalion was formed from the “73rd Guards Tank Regiment IS”. The IS in the “73rd Guards Tank Regiment IS” indicates that the regiment was supposed to be equipped with IS tanks in its authorised strength.

On 1st September 1945, not long after its formation, the 73rd Tank Battalion only had five operational T-34-85s.

By 1st December 1945, the 73rd Tank Battalion received 16 T-34-85s from a factory(з-га) and a T-34-76 and T-34-85 from 174th Evacuation Company {Rus.174-й эвакуационной роты (из 174-й э. роты)}.


By 1st January 1946, the 73rd Tank Battalion received 11 additional T-34-85s as replenishment.

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From 1st to 15th March 1946, three out of 33 T-34-85s were sent for Капитальн. ремонт (Eng: major repair). On 15th May 1946, one of them was discovered to be a “T-34-88”.

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On 15th June 1946, a new column titled “t-34 88 mm” (the lower case of “t” is written as “m” in italics Cyrillic alphabet) was added. A ”T-34 88 mm…” was removed from the column of “t-34 (85 mm)” and moved to the column of “t-34 88 mm”. On 1st September, 1946, the T-34-88 and two T-34-76s were sent to Plant No. 27 of Leningrad for restoration.

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Source: Советские танки Гитлера - Page 115

T-34-88 – Specifications

(Click to show)
Category Specification
Designation T-34-88
Origin Nazi Germany/Soviet Union
Crew 5 (Commander, Gunner, Loader, Driver, Radio Operator/Bow MG)
Combat Weight ~32 metric tons

Dimensions

  • Length (with gun forward): ~8.15 m
  • Hull Length: ~6.68 m
  • Width: 3.00 m
  • Height: 2.45 m

Mobility

Engine V-2-34 V12 Diesel (T-34 engine)
Horsepower ~500 hp @ 2,000 rpm
Transmission 5-speed manual
Top Speed (Road): ~61 km/h (improved throttle response)
Operational Range: ~400–450 km (with external fuel drums)
Power-to-Weight Ratio ~16.25 hp/ton
Suspension: Christie
Tracks: T-34 standard tracks

Armament

Main Gun: 8,5/8,8 cm L/56 canon (S-53)
Ammunition Types: (Same as Flak 18/36/37 in 1945)

  1. APCBC-HE (Pzgr. 39)
  2. APCBC (Pzgr. Patr. 41),
  3. HE-TF (Sprgr. Patr. L/4.5 (Kz))
  4. HE (Sprgr. L/4.5)
  5. Incendiary Shrapnel (Gr. Br. Schr. Flak.)

Source: OP 1666 Volume 2

Turret Rotation Speed: 21.2°/s
Vertical Guidance: -0.5/25.0°
Ammo Capacity: ~55–60 rounds
Coaxial MG: 7.62 mm DT
Hull MG: 7.62 mm DT


Armor Protection

Hull Front (Upper Glacis): 45 mm @ 60° (~90 mm effective)
Turret Front: 75–90 mm (cast)
Hull Sides: 45 mm (vertical)
Turret Sides: 75 mm
Rear Armor: 40–52 mm
Roof/Floor: 20 mm / 15–20 mm

Edited note: Since Imgur blocks access from the UK due to the UK’s Online Safety Act 2023, I replaced all the Imgur links with uploaded images.

32 Likes

+1 Very cool.

As much as I wish it would be TT, I think a squadron vehicle would be the best fit.

Also several images won’t show as I’m in the UK and it gets iffy with Imgur images.

3 Likes

This is amazing.
I wonder what the chamber pressures and the resulting penetration values are compared to the tigers 88mm cannon.

8 Likes

Wow, this is an awesome suggeation. Good work.

7 Likes

Always thought this was a fake tank made by kit-bashers like the Flak 88 T-34. +1

5 Likes

This would have been better or equal than the panther if it wasnt for this “Vertical Guidance: -0.5/25.0°”. Seems like pain

3 Likes

Well done research and suggestion. My first thought was this was going to be a T-34/85 for the Germans, the only difference being the cupola or something, however after reading the suggestion I can give my full support to this being added to the game.

3 Likes

Most likely same as 8,5/8,8 cm Flak M 39(r) (umgeseelt), which is identical to 88 mm Flak 18/36/37.

2 Likes

People voting tech tree vehicle for a captured vehicle are out of their minds 😅

It’s basically the equivalent of the Soviet T-V but with extra modifications.

An event vehicle would make the most sense or you would have German T-34-85s running around in every match.

5 Likes

+1, virtually speechless. Event.

I was under the impression that this had not actually happened. Tank encyclopedia has an article debunking the whole T-34/88 concept.

2 Likes

This one is newly discovered with none of the evidence that article mentioned and disproved or debunked.

7 Likes

One of the images is a suggestion I was working on for the Soviets, the one with Leonid Vasilyevich Egoshin in front of it. its nice to see the German one submitted.

1 Like

Any more details about that T-34?

Well from what I know the tank is a “T-34-85” with the code K20 with the 174 evacuation company. Clearly the barrel was altered so it’s not a ordinary unit.
It’s nice to see someone else has done some work on this vehicle.

I originally came across this vehicle months ago while looking at Sd.Kfz. 251s

From this post

New to me Sd.Kfz. 251D/Nebelwerfer? - Missing-Lynx

Images come from a film from 1945, Latvia when tons of German equipment were being taken by Soviet forces.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8avdv9

1 Like

Ic. I was managed to found the K-20 after I found out that the T-34-88 was originated from 174 evacuation company.

2 Likes

Interesting! I’ll bring this to their attention then.

1 Like

This is the tank enthusiast’s equivalent to finding the Ark of the Covenant, and naturally it was a member of the War Thunder community that presented such findings.

Amazing job, at long last it seems that the discourse can end
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3 Likes

:o
I didn’t think this conversion was real. Absolute cinema.
+1

2 Likes

This one is fake.

2 Likes