Panzer II Ausf. J Tigers Cub

[Would you like to see this in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

I woule like to suggest the Panzer II Ausf. J, an interesting take on the Pz II Series and “light” tank.
The Pz II Ausf. J is the last model of the Pz II in its classic way and will be a bit hard to ballance, because while it is a “light” tank, its armor and firepower are on the opposid sides of the spectrum, but more on that later below.

History:
1942 with 22 Build.
While looking like the famous Ausf. L, the J is a bit different but also still in the (Heavy) Reconnaissance Role. (Tho it wasnt the best at it). Together with the Pz I Ausf. F the Pz II Ausf. J were designed for close Infantry support and heavy Reconnaissance around 1942, with small size beeing exploited by heavy armor of 80mm Front and 50mm Sides and back, while armed with a Mg 34 and 2 cm KwK 38 L/65 to fight against infantry, light reinforced strucktures and light tanks and armored cars, but also as reconnaissance when needed.

It began its live in 1939 November 15th as the VK 16.01 (VollKette 16 (ton) 01 (First Vehicle of the series)). The first prototype were approved in 1940 and a contract given to MAN. However because of delays (and the War taking its own toll) production didnt start until 1943. And just in a small run of 22 Vehicles. Crewed by 3 Persons, 2 in the Hull (behind the Fahrersehklappe 80 as seen on the Tiger I) and 1 in the Turret which both hull and turret beeing protected by 80mm Frontally and 50mm sides and back
(so survivability will be quite high, especially when angling) The general look and similarity to the Tiger I, just smaller earned it the name Tiger Cub by the russians. Powered by the 150 Ps HL 45 engine, the tank could drive along at a steady 31 Kmh with 18 ton weight.

Its service wasnt plated with gold, of the ordered 100 only 22 were build when the order was cancelled in july 1942 with effort shifting to newer tank models. And all were send along the Pz I Ausf. F to the eastern front to Kurst in the 12th Panzer Regiment. While pretty much immune against counter reconnaissance (such as enemy Scout cars and even the ZiS-2 AT gun) it wasnt really good in either roll as it was too slow to be good at reconnaissance and to weakly armed to be a really good vehicle to attack reinforced positions. In 1944 a damaged one was converted to Bergepanzer II Ausf. J and the rest were destroyed, with today no surviving examples.

Pictures: (Click to show)

image
image
image
image
image
image
image
image


image
image
image

image


image
image
image


Panzer Tracts No. 2-2


Screenshot 2024-05-16 195307
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195235
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195225
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195212
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195202
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195146
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195138
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195131
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195121
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195110



The Gun:
2 cm KwK 38 L/65
200 or 400 Rounds, 450 Rpm, 10 round mags.
-10° to +20° 360° travers 25°/sec or higher.
Ammo:


AP:


Pzgr. L`Spur. o.Zerl. (Ph.) (ApI-T) 0,148kg 830m/s 40mm/10m

Note: Used against ground targets. Soft and armored. 3g White Phosphor Core.
Were fully replaced by the empty ones and later .Zerl in the Desert and other hot places, as the Phostphor had a nasty tendicy to self ignite in hot weather.
The Ph. marked ones were standart with the filler, however they also existed with an O. which indicated they didnt have a filler and were only 143g (and 835-840m/s).
(Velocity for L/55 is 800, 805-810 for the 143g.)
image


Pzgr. L'Spur zerl. (Aphe-T Sd) 0,148 kg 830m/s 2,4g Pent 37mm/10m

NOTE: Against ground and air tragets. Soft and armored.
It does NOT have a fuze, the filler is for self destruction, in game it would also explode upon impact when shattering, like the japanese 30mm Aphe.
(Velocity for L/55 is 800.)
Bild11
Screenshot 2024-04-19 134646


Pzgr. 40 L`Spur. o.Zerl. (HVAP-T) 0,100kg 1050m/s 62g core 12x45mm 50mm/10m

Note: Only used against heavy armored targets, where the standart Ap ammo does not penetrate.
Bild14
Screenshot 2024-04-19 134609
Screenshot 2024-04-19 134620


He:


Sprgr. L`Spur. m.Zerl. (Hefi-T Sd.) 0,120kg 900m/s 6,2g Pent (10,54g) 5mm/10m

Zeichn_04
Screenshot 2024-05-10 000937


Sprgr. Erd. o.L'Spur. o.Zerl. (He) 0,120kg 900m/s 11g Pent (18,7g)

Note: Only against groundtargets.
(Couldnt find the correct drawing, the Br.Sprgr. o.L’Spur is basically the same, just different filler with Zink.
Screenshot 2023-09-06 122928
sprgr erd


The Vehicle:

Armour Front Sides Rear Roof
Hull 80 mm (11°) Front plate
60 mm (73°) Front glacis
80 mm (36°) Bottom glacis 50 mm 50 mm 25 mm
Turret 80 mm(rounded mantlet) 50 mm 50 mm 25 mm

Engine: Maybach HL 45 P 150 PS
Speed: 31 km/h
Crew: 3 → Gunner in turret, Driver and radio operator
Suspention: Interleafed roadwheels by Kniepkamp

Source:
Panzer Tracts No. 2-2 Pz II Ausf. G, H, J, L and M
Munition der 2 cm KwK
Panzerkampfwagen I & II Tanks & Armour

8 Likes

this would be absolute hell to balance, +1 still

5 Likes

A heavy light tank, interesting. +1

4 Likes

From Panzertracts No. 2-2
(Also added to the Main suggestion)

Some more nice pictures:(Click to show)

Screenshot 2024-05-16 195307
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195235
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195225
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195212
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195202
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195146
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195138
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195131
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195121
Screenshot 2024-05-16 195110



2 Likes

Actually i dont think it will be all that hard.
Id say 2.0 (2.3 and it would often face 3.3 where it will be a slow paper weight.)
Because on paper yes the armor is impressive, however!

  1. Its only 80mm, especially the turret mantlet is cast (0,94x protection = effectively only 75,2mm) which can be penetrated by the most common guns it will face, namely USA 37mm gun with 86mm/10m, British 40mm with similar pen of over 80mm and USSR 45mm gun.
  2. Its slow with barely over 30 km/h (if it will even reach that when not on a road on a straight line) while most enemys youll face are fast light tanks:
    M22, M2A4, Daimler AC Mk.II A13 Mk.I - II (1939), Bt 5/7 and so on.
  3. Its still only the 2 cm gun, yes it works with Hvap 48mm(should be 50mm or higher) pen, but when thats not enove your a sitting duck with over 6 second reload, enove to get 2 rounds out.

So it will only really be good in good hands (angled and stuff) and otherwise situational, but youll can easily be outmanuvered. (Tho it will have a relatively quick turret and Vertically stabilized.

3 Likes

+1 would be nice addition to the TT

How come you settled for 50mm of penetration? :D
That’s barely more than the 15mm APCR or 14.5mm BS-41.

1 Like

Because i simply dont know what else to write there, thats what comes out of the Wiki calculator, be it wrong or not. Of course it isnt really right.

1 Like

My estimates for 320 BHN RHA (0°/30°):

0m - 68mm/47mm

100m - 58mm/40mm

200m - 50mm/34mm

300m - 42mm/29mm

400m - 36mm/25mm

500m - 30mm/21mm

3 Likes

Cool make a report or add it to my existing one.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/iHHa25vbs4rl

Yeah that checks out with the data I’ve posted in that report:

Where the Hispano 20mm APCR penetrates around as much according to that website.

1 Like

New picture:

1 Like

To add to point 1: there is the B1 bis at 2.3 with way better guns but with the tradeoff of less armor(60mm angled).

1 Like

Ok, but that one has mostly angled and bouncy front (with exception to the drivers Head) and 55mm side armor (not much, but better when angled) (But also Pz II has 2 huge Fahrersehklappen 80.)

And a more spaced crew, 1 Pen on the Pz II Ausf.J will most likely kill 2 or 3 Members.

And that aside, i am impressed, there are relatively many Pictures including official Propaganda pictures of it, even tho it was a relative failure as well as with low production.

2 Likes

Yeah it was mostly ment as a reference point of armor and br(not arguing for it to be at the same br i think it should be lower).

1 Like