You aren’t supposed to be able to shoot a missile down every single time because sometimes the circumstances do not allow it, but majority of the time, you can easily engage a missile, especially if you are duelling with someone like a helicopter.
Everything is true without me needing to add unreasonable amounts of sources to it. Why? Because you can look at the pantsir and see those capabilities. You can see the data for the better radar on the war thunder’s wiki website, when you look at the pantsir, you can see the large amount of ready to launch missiles and the guns. You can then combine what you saw about this vehicle, and what you read about it and have an understanding of said capabilities.
Further proof of your trolling. Everything that i have said can be backed up by war thunder wiki and the ingame external vehicle viewer. Now youre admitting that you’re dismissing everything because you don’t consider anything as valid evidence.
Give us the exact source talking about the average G loads of the TOR-M1 and the Pantsir, sources that are actually quantitative about the Pantsir being easily dodged, and actual quantitative sources that the TOR-M1 is much more difficult to dodge than the Pantsir - then you’ll be using scientific evidence.
Literally all you’ve been saying is “the average G is higher but I can’t give you the source,” “the Pantsir is easily dodgeable but I haven’t given any sources that show this,” “the TOR-M1 is really hard to dodge but I haven’t given any sources that show this,” and “the only reason SPAA exist is for killing jets, even though obviously there are helicopters in this game.”
War Thunder wiki and external vehicle viewer cannot prove the effectiveness of SPAA, thus they can’t be used as evidence on how powerful a SPAA is.
The only evidence is controlled testing and/or practical testing.
I’ve tested Pantsir against every top CAS both controlled & practical [matches] which granted results CONTRARY to what I wanted.
I wanted Pantsir to kill me, I still want Pantsir to kill me.
I want to be correct that Pantsir is powerful, but the results show that my hypothesis is wrong every time I test.
That’s the opposite of Confirmation Bias just so you’re aware.
Paper stats doesn’t tell me how powerful a SPAA is, otherwise ITO-90M would be the best SPAA in the game and it’s not.
@SpeclistMain
I gave you sources that Pantsir is dodgeable, you didn’t read/watch them.
They can very much tell about the capabilities of a vehicle and we can examine vehicle effectiveness based on the capabilities of a vehicle.
Ito90m would not be the best in engaging against helicopters due to lower amount of ready to fire missiles
Ito90m would not be best at protecting the ground vehicles also due to low amount of ready to fire missiles (you have to balance between trying to protect your team from missiles and saving some up to try and kill hostile aircraft)
Ito90m can not provide protection against jets circling in low proximity around the battlefield
ito90m can not engage reliably engage anyone who chooses to do low altitude bombing, rocketing or any other forms of such attacks.
Ito90m has no way of protecting itself when running out of the lesser amount of missiles it has. With pantsir, you can simply have your guns up and drive according to elevation on the map.
Not to mention all the disadvantanges in the radar system. Ito90m is not the best spaa. It is not versatile enough to deal with many of the situations that a pantsir can deal with. It is not survivable at all when compared with the pantsir.
You’re ignoring most of the situations that happen in top tier and only mentioning one situation, one situation where the ito90m has advantange while ignoring all of the other situations where it is disadvantanged as part of your confirmation bias.
This post is about pantsir ruining the game, because it beats every spaa in majority of the situations that it faces on the battlefield, while also being the same battle rating.
Patriot is NOT comparable to the Pantsir. The shortest range Partriot missile has 30km range. It far outclasses Pantsir not to mention Patriot is not a self contained system.
That’s a difference of 10km, which is what Pansir has over the ADATS at the same BR, and only 2km more than the difference between the VT-1 and Pantsir.
Any talk about the patriot is indeed pointless, it is not compatible for this game nor is any other complex multivehicle air defense system compatible here. If they introduced one they would have to introduce the rest. S-400 S-300 David’s sling, nasams to sweden (finnish used)… Hell, why not the arrow 3 which is made to shoot down ballistic missiles. The missile has a flight range of 2400km and flight speed of mach 5 which is hypersonic. lol. (up to mach 9 when high)
The Pantsir launched all of their missiles, even launching on my forward maneuvers of launching, and couldn’t hit me. Radar/missile wobbles, passes by but can’t proxy cause too far away.
Automatic mode was used for half of them.
It’s ironic that you accuse everyone of things that you yourself do.
That’s called psychological projection.
2km is the difference between Pantsir & ADATS against jets.
Pantsir is only 18km against static targets.
Pantsir to Patriot is like comparing AIM-9L to AIM-9B.
With a top speed of Mach 4.1 as well, much higher than anything in game (Pantsir has a top speed of Mach 3.7). If you thought the graph comparing Pantsir to other spaa was bad, with Patriot it would be much worse.
This is not something that works against maneuvering targets, not in a reliable way. It is pointless to use the automatic mode as point of comparison as it can be disabled and it is not a feature of any nato equipment in game.
While you are able to maneuver against a pantsir, yes, all you need to do to kill the ito90m/flarakrad is fly low and drop a bomb, use your gun or use your rockets which is way easier in contested airspace as you have to stay low to avoid radar missiles coming from jets. The reason you’re able to do all those wobbles and scribbles at high altitude is because you’re in 1v1 situation again in a custom match and you have no teammates/hostiles. There would be hostile helis and jets trying to engage you in a real match. Therefore your comparison is again, too shallow and pointless as it does not show pantsir’s capability in a true battle enviroment.
‘‘only 18km’’ ah yes a guaranteed range of 18 kilometers while ito90m has a guaranteed range of 11 kilometers.
To beat a pantsir in active battle situation you need to have the pantsir’s team devoid of any jets or helis, which means that a pantsir shouldn’t be able to win anyway due to a disadvantange
Thing is, you can kill a flarakrad with his full team present with 0 danger to yourself, then you can kill rest of the team.
Yes, only. Pantsir’s “guaranteed launch range” against jets is 12km, which still don’t hit.
And 1v1 gives Pantsir ALL the benefit, without 1v1 Pantsir effectiveness reduces cause of spawncamp pressure & other aircraft potentials.
No matter how many Pantsirs are on the battlefield, a jet can consider them all as one singular SPAA cause they’ll all miss.
You can kill a Pantsir with zero danger to yourself.
This is not true. Your missile is going to go all the way to 18km while the full range is 20km.
It gives all the benefit to the jet that goes against pantsir because it is not an active battlefield. You don’t have to watch out for things that you have to watch out in a real battlefield which makes engaging a pantsir very easy.
Pretty much only when there is no teammates in jets or helicopters which you would likely have in a real battle unless if you were already losing.
Not in every battle do you have friendlies, but the pantsir has better capabilities even without friendlies on the team. Flarakrad does not improve the survivability of your team the way a pantsir can do.
If i did the same 1v1 situation in custom battles, i could kill a flarakrad with a ww2 propeller aircraft.
You can have teammates and jets on the side of flarakrad yet you can still kill the flarakrad without imposing danger to yourself and without exposing yourself to hostile radar guided missiles
All you have to do is fly low and use your guns. This will keep you safe from flarakrad’s teams missiles. Against a pantsir, this is not viable because pantsir has guns. You have to risk yourself against the hostile team in order to kill a pantsir.
And? The effective range of flarakrad is less than 10km.
The missiles are probably only equal to the 8km range. Now add up every single other advantange a pantsir has, and this equality, and you have this multicapable gun and missile spammer.
And this happens with the flarakrad too. Or the jet just flies below the horizon and you can’t do anything.
This argument still ignores every single other capability of the pantsir and only focuses on a single situation where a pantsir and flarakrad is more equal than not equal.
