Many vehicles face the same issue, so removing dozens of vehicles from the game isn’t the best idea.
While many vehicles face this issue, majority of these vehicles are not on top tier so the issue can be fixed by changing battle rating.
Clearly here there is no intent to change battle rating, so removal is the only option.
Pantsir should be added back after our jets get shrikes and harms.
BR changes won’t solve compression, it will just move it somewhere else, so only true way of getting rid of similar problems is to push top tier vehicles above 11.7.
This is like saying M60 AMBT is the best MBT at ~10.0 since it carries the best ammunition, without even taking into consideration other, equally as important things.
If you’re 1.5km away from SPAA at top BR you’re doing CAS wrong.
Just gonna say that now.
More missiles =/= better.
Su-27 is all aggression.
F-15 is just as fast, better at retaining energy, and carries far more countermeasures.
‘‘equally important’’
Important note here is that su-27 is faster than f-15 at top speed on low level which is used to force dogfights or to force a ir missile engagement
Maneuverability is less irrelevant at top tier as most of the kills are made using missiles, maneuverability only comes into deciding play when youre at 1v1
Countermeasures are now mostly useless unless if you’re going front aspect on someone
R73+hmd is still the meta as you can stay low on deck while spamming your 40g irccm missiles, the f-15 can’t do that and if it wants to fire aim-9 at someone above it, it has to point the nose up which means getting into risk zone of 35g radar missiles
Theres way more to it but right now the argument was about pantsirs and this is on ground vehicle discussion
The pantsir is able to force the whole enemy team to either stay on the deck or to fly squares in TWO specific directions which makes getting air superiority extremely hard. Being able to limit a whole enemy team into flying in squares is not a small thing.
The pantsir is currently superior to any other vehicle and it is unreasonable to have such, therefore either anti radiation missiles should be added or the pantsir removed.
Most annoying of all is that default airspawn is in range of pantsir on most maps. It doesn’t happen often but even if you dive on spawning there’s a genuine risk that a pantsir will get you, default spawn should be further away or lower down given the absurd range.
How are you unironically trying to say that the Su-27 isn’t the absolute best plane in the game right now [regardless of] its missiles and AoA? And regardless stop derailing the thread.
The Pantsir has almost no downsides when compared to the TOR-M1, with the only thing that really matters being the 9M331 having 10 extra G compared to the 95Ya6 (although the 95Ya6 is 32G, so still better than US air-to-air missiles because of course it is). The Pantsir:
Now after reading all that, there is no way you can think the Pantsir isn’t the best SPAA in game right now.
The other issue with all this is what other nations have ANYTHING close to either the TOR-M1 or Pantsir? If you’d like to discuss how NATO needs more SPAA like yesterday, then cool.
Pantsir has an effective range of 12km before its 30G missiles can’t even pull 20Gs anymore. You will never hit a mach 1 target with Pantsir. You will never hit minor moving targets beyond 12km with Pantsir.
Go ahead, I’ll 1v1 you using F-16AJ.
TOR-M1 missiles pull at least 33Gs at 12km.
Speed doesn’t matter when you can’t hit skilled targets.
The rest is just embellishing its very lackluster missiles.
When a Pantsir can kill me even once in a year when I’m not goofing off I’ll take it seriously.
News flash: Only died once to Pantsir cause I was goofing off going 600KPH over Breslau.
USSR needs TOR-M1 though, as it needs something better than Pantsir.
Just like other countries need their VT-1 missiles fixed if they haven’t been already.
As for Su-27, sir Russia fan, the only people praising Su-27 are those that haven’t learned of Gripen, F-15, F-16C, or Mirage 4000.
Su-27 is good, it’s just not meta defining.
I don’t even play CAS and I know that ever since the Pantsir was added the only way to consistently stay alive is to be on the deck at all times - and since you don’t have the altitude needed to be able to aim at the Pantsir (or anything really) through buildings or trees you need to get much closer.
Nope. Pantsir doesn’t force people to stay low at all.
I stay at 6000 meters 5 - 14km away as CAS in matches because I know Pantsirs can’t hit me.
I only stay beyond 12km if China’s on the enemy team.
Pantsir is no more effective than FlaRakRad, meaning both are useless.
Pantsir has never been the best SPAA in the game, and never will be because TOR-M1 exists.
Pantsir cannot and has never limited players to flying in squares.
You don’t need anti-radiation missiles, just fly high & fast, and bomb/missile them.
@SpeclistMain
Pantsirs can’t hit mach 1 targets.
There’s a reason I never die in ground RB to Pantsirs.
I stay high, and stay fast.
Being low actually makes you easier to hit by Pantsirs cause you can’t do as many angles.
Mirage 4000, F-15, and Gripen all have superior flight performance to Su-27.
Su-27 bleeds more speed than all other top jets in the game, and has the lowest sustained turning ability getting beaten by F-4E.
I can teach everyone here how to avoid all SPAA in the game that isn’t TOR-M1.
And it’s very simple:
Be above 6000 meters.
Go mach 1.
Only turn in to drop armament, then turn slightly away for guidance.
You beat Pantsirs.
People that oppose Pantsir in War Thunder just want CAS to be OP & never be shot down by any SPAA.
Of course Pantsir being at best on-par to ITO-90, it’s weird for people to oppose it.
You have to be doing so many things wrong to die to Pantsir.
I just want something halfway comparable.
US and British top tier SPAA is literally a 10.3 Roland with a maximum range of 8km / Stormer
Unless of course, you count the “Anti-Tank Missile Carrier” that costs 3x as much as the Pantsir with half the range
USA and UK have ADATS, which honestly is comparable.
You can only hit targets that are going somewhat at you in the 10km range.
Which is only 2km shorter than Pantsir missile’s maneuverable range.
Pantsir can hit 18km targets IF they go straight toward Pantsir or it’s a helicopter. Pretty much drones, bombers, and helicopters only beyond 12km.
If you doubt this, you can get in CAS and I’ll coach you how to win against Pantsir with me in the Pantsir.
Yes except as I mentioned it costs 2-4x as much to spawn depending on how much you actually played that round compared to the Pantsir which gets the super discounted SPAA spawn
True. Especially for something that’s “as good” as Pantsir… meaning it’ll miss targets.
This is why I’ve been putting air superiority fighters in my SPAA slots for the last year.
F-16C, F-15J, Mig-29G for Germany, Gripen for Britain.
I’d rather spend 500 SP for a guaranteed anti-air than 90SP for potential kills, or more in the case of ADATS.
“ADATS, which honestly is comparable.”
Pantsir Advantages -
ADATS Advantages -
“honestly comparable,” sure…
You listed no actual advantages of Pantsir.
You made filler in order to embellish your favorite SPAA in the game.
Pantsir’s sole advantage over ADATS is the 2km longer range against maneuvering targets, and 8km longer range against static targets.
That’s it.
The rest aren’t measurable benefits, which you’d know if you had experience in all the SPAA systems, or at least defeated all the SPAA systems.
Yes, I even defeated TOR-M1, I was beyond 12km when I defeated it.
Which no one care (except Russian main which their thought not have value anyways)that they superior than Russians because they supposed to be that way
As an SPAA having 3.0x the total missiles, 1.5x the readily available missiles, faster missiles, 2.0x the launch range, more explosive mass, a larger trigger radius, and semi-automatic guidance are at the very least objectively advantages that have huge implications in match.
A Pantsir at the minimum will be 1.5x more effective in the short term and 3.0x more effective in the long term during a match, let alone thinking about how effective the radar of the Pantsir is when compared to having to beam-ride the ADATS’s missiles (while also needing to be more accurate because the ADATS has a smaller trigger radius AND a lower amount of explosive filler).
Amount of missiles is potential, nothing more.
Explosive mass doesn’t matter if the missiles kill the target in its proximity range.
Larger trigger radius doesn’t matter if they can’t maneuver well enough to begin with.
Automatic guidance misses its target.
So you listed no advantages.
And the advantage I listed you never did because you think paper range means everything.
Here’s a fun fact, Matra 530E has a range of 30km, must be better than AIM-9L then.
How about AIM-54s 160km range. Must be better than AIM-7Es… oh wait.
Paper range means nothing.
