It was 5.7 for years,it needs to go back, it was perfectly balanced there.
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No. You are just overtiering these vehicles.
Trying to put a ww2 spaa at 7.7 because it has apcr is a joke
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With how the community seems to whine about any tankbusting SPAAG, I would not be surprised one damn bit if it gradually increased in BR just from its new 87mm pen APHE belt.
I frequently used the A when it had the 700hp engine at 6.7 alongside other vehicles, and it frankly performed fine. The turretless Jagdpanther was my go-to uptier insurance used in the same decks.
You seem to be neglecting to consider the part about “if they have historically accurate APCR round penetration and post-penetration” in regards to these proposed BRs.
It probably will but it they shouldn’t have even done this. The coelien isn’t gonna perform well as some sort of spaa TD like a falcon or ZA-35 or gepard. It has terrible qualities about it like its -3kph reverse that will prevent it from doing this, and the aphe that now exists/apcr you propose will push it away from being an actual spaa
It does not fit in at 6.7 as a vehicle. You doing well in something does not matter.
because gaijin is never buffing apcr. Further, even if gaijin did give the exact apcr specs you say, people would still not use apcr over aphe.
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apcbc is still enough at 6.7 instead of shooting without aim its more like finding the weakspot…
Panthers don’t fit in at 6.7 under current compression. Their upsides would diminish heavily and their downsides would start screaming.
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it was just a turret, not a full vehicle. therefore ANY panther F turret on a F hull is a fake vehicle that never fully existed.
Says who?
Yes, then a bunch of early cold war tanks got moved up, then everything under it got shifted up as it started to over preform, including the Tiger 2, IS-2s, Panthers and Hellcats, they still fight the same stuff they always did, they just don’t get to go down and seal club Shermans quite as often as they did at 5.7
Nah. The Panthers are fine at 6.0BR
Hell, the VK3002 and the Panther D could both easily be moved up to 5.7BR and still do just as well.
Other than some maps not being ideal for them - Urban - It’s primarily players playing them improperly.
No.
You have 2 entire games in the VK3002, 40 in the Panther D with a 0.8 K/D ratio. And you’re arguing both of them should be massively uptiered. This just feels like opportunism, wanting to move up vehicles you struggle with when facing more than anything.
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VK is just a lighter armored Panther. There’s nothing impressive or unique there so I don’t care to spade it.
Panther D hasn’t been played in literal years so bringing up those stats is wholly irrelevant.
Doesn’t discredit that both vehicles can be uptiered and still perform well. If anything, it sounds to me like you’re a WehraBoo that wants his undertiered vehicles to stay that way.
You argue both can be uptiered, which is true for a ton of vehicles. Which doesn’t mean they should be or deserve to go up in base BR.
You however do so while pretending you know what you’re talking about, when you barely played either of these vehicles and performed quite badly in both. Mostly facing them as opponents instead.
Throwing buzzwords around because folks disagree with your assertion that the VK3002 should be moved up two whole BR tiers. Putting it at the same BR as the IS-1 and M4A3.
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If they were undertierred they would have moved up by now but the only Panthers that got moved up in BR were the Panther A/G and not the supposedly much better VK and Panther D.
They are literally only good sniping people at range, as their turret traverse is completely inefficient to fight on 90% of maps.
If a low profile Jagdpanzer IV/70 went from 5.3 to 5.7, while a giant medium tank with crappy gun traverse stayed at 5.3, you know it can’t be all that great.
It’s a trade off. That doesn’t make the Panther D or VK better than less armored medium tanks.
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You know low tier is about to get a bunch of big HE launchers, right? Moving it down the panther is going to be useless. Its armour may be good for defending against AP shells, but it’s going to be a tasty target; using HE can literally overpressure the tank almost anywhere.
You know very well that Gaijin likes to " balance " the game’s BR ratings based mostly on SL earnings and global KDR instead of the vehicle’s actual capabilities.
Yes, later Panthers got uptiered and they’re still performing just fine, outside of max uptiers where basically every vehicle suffers in. We can talk about the compression issues and I’ve made it clear we need more BR decompression - Been saying it for years.
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They aren’t performing all that great looking at K/D ratios. And you could say the same damn thing about other vehicles who haven’t been moved up either. You seem to have a particularly dislike for certain tanks, tanks you don’t play yourself but do face as enemies.
But that doesn’t change that neither is and better than other vehicles at their BR.
The VK has pretty good mobility, armor and penetration but the gun traverse severely limits how it can fight.
The M6A1 and M4A1 (76) have a stab and the KV-85 has the 85mm that will penetrate anything the Panther 75 can while dealing more damage.
Both have much faster turret traverse speed so they can react much quicker.
The ability to point your turret 45-90° to drive and fire out of cover or simply react to moving targets or enemy pooping up at close range is a massive advantage.
Vehicles with fast turret traverse can be immensely effective in getting kills that other tanks simply couldn’t have gotten.
And the opposite is true for vehicle with no turret or slow turret traverse.
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